Priest

And Yun that is the point, have you read the BTS Manifesto? And for your information my TV is top of the line thank you very much. BTW being backwards compatible has nothing to do with what we are talking about. The 5 year lifecycle of a console game system restricts the designers, period. CMBB is going to be graphically superior to to CMBO and is coming within two years of CMBO. Now this can happen because we can all upgrade our PCs rather easily and for a decently low amount. The same could not be said for your console game. So yes you could download mods but could you system handle them. If it could not could you buy a better video card for your PS2? No you cannot. So if a game company wants to port a game to a new console system they have to realize that the next installation of the game series (if they choose to port it again) most likely either has to wait 5 years (the current life cycle) or limit itself to what the consoles can do. And just for your info, none of the consoles currently out are nearly as powerful as my PC, and I am on PIII technology. Lastly Yun, CM Lite for the masses is not CM. CM for the masses is watered down, dumbed down, healthbarred out, realtimed, bloodletting, bang-bang-pow-pow, pretty graphics but someone forgot the substance bullcrap of a game. It is called Sudden Strike by the way. CM (not CM-lite or whatever else you call it) is not for the masses, it is for the "advanced" gamers who need more than pretty lights and over the top animations. It is a thinking persons game, that is the reality of the situation and no matter how you twist and turn the words it will still be that way.

Moon I laughed out loud!

Yun I have a 47'widescreen high definition TV that is flatscreen in my living room. And you know what, CMBO looks better on my trinitron in my game room. Nice try but it is not the truth. CM is not coming to the console, it's market is not there, and hence there is no need to spend the money to do so. And the CM code is worth something, so far every dollar BTS has made on it. And as far as an 80's 3D engine, yeah whatever, I do not remember many 3D game engines in the 80's. Do not confuse intentional low res graphics to the capability of the engine itself. And the game is not turnbased it is WEGO. And finally the PS2, XBOX, and Gamecube are stuck in a five year lifecycle with little are no hardware upgrade possible, which means that upgrades to the code and graphics of CM would be limited on anything but a full upgradeable PC. Last time I checked we have one hell of a mod community and I am pretty sure my CMBO game is a hi res fest to the eyes, in fact I am sure it is. Sorry Yun that is reality. Learn to love it.

While Andreas does not need me to do this, Andreas allow me to field this one. I own every game system out since the atari 2600 with the exception of the Atari Jaguar and the 3DO. I think there was a brief Panasonic venture I am missing also, but all the big boys are in my living room (or my game room) with regards to console game systems. Actually I bailed on the XBOX, it sucks, but on to my point. There is a definitive line between a "console" game and a "PC Game". Normally PC games cannot go to the console well, but console games can come to the PC and be about the same. PC games tend to be deeper and slower than console games. Simulations have always been better on the PC, not just because of hardware, but due to the markets each appeals to. And while the hardware is changing the markets are not. As Sega about their SegaNet venture if you do not believe me. There will obviously be some narrowing of the gap but it is still quite evident that console gamers and PC gamers want different things. I am both, and I expect different things from each. I expect NeverWinter Nights to be an indepth adventure heavy on the tools side of things. I expect Final Fantasy games to wow me with effects and sound and tell me a wrenching story of epic proportions that I interact within. Lastly Dr-whatever-your-name-is but Andreas was not talking about Console versus PC but the effect "selling-out" has on pretty much every piece of software ever made by a small dedicated focused company to a large commercial market controlled company. Do the names Squad Leader or Halo mean anything to you? One sucks and the other went from revolutionary to "a pretty FPS". I would read what others write before you attack them. Andreas have at him! There are more holes in his argument than in a Sherman staring down a battalion of Tigers.

Airplane II!

I did! Are you sure your trees, urrr, I mean internet connection is up???

The reason Stix is soooo fixated on shooting planes down is that he has given up shooting at my tanks. He either misses or doesn't kill them. Stop changing the subject and come and suffer you inevitable Hetzer death

I have done what I can ICM, let them come, he has been forwarned. Do you hear them? Yes they are near? The Grog and the Cess will soon devour the whelp

Welcome, Hopefully I can explain some stuff to you that you not yet know. One is that you have to be more descriptive. Where was this commander, in rough, trees, a building? If so he could very much be protected from your fire. If he were say in a foxhole, on a reverse slope and your targeting was not square for all 15 shots then sure. If he was a company commander or battalion commander he may have 6-8 men to start with (that is almost the same as a squad of infantry) and could have lost up to 7 men. He also may have randomly been fanatic. As for the second instance you have to realize that CMBO is a game of abstraction. Those green open tiles you see are actually filled with brush and undulations as far as the the coding is concerned, it is just not transalated graphically due to current systems (that is the customers computer) most folks (or all folks) own. Also the men do not just walk up as they graphically due (another abstraction) but are actually bobbing and weaving, leap frogging and dodging, and basically picking their way towards your Lynx in this case. Yes you fired you MG at them, but there is cover in those green tiles and even though graphically they look like they are coming right at you, they could actaully be anywhere within the 20 meter? square that they inhabit. Welcome to the game though, you will find a rich community here with a wealth of knowledge. But do understand that the many abstractions in the game do shock people at first but most get used to it and come to realize that this the closest thing to what really was in WWII, well that is until CMBB comes out What you describe could have really happened in real life. Zooks did get close to German tanks, and men under tank fire held there ground. You will find no weapon is an Uber Weapon and that there are no "tricks" that garner you instant success. This is not an RTS nor a FPS. This is a true simulation of the tactical combat arena of WWII. Enjoy.

Fionn is being sly everyone I know your secret, and I also know that your match with NightGaunt is great. Fun stuff!

It possible to have a 9000 pt battle in CMBO.

This was from the person who thought me breaking down the word Sniper between noun and verb was "splitting hairs". Can someone say hypocrite? I knew you could. Fionn your points are well taken, now why are my Jacksons taking up my armour points, they are halftracks right?????

If you think about, that is a damn brave Tiger crew. Eight seconds is a long time in what basically is an oven with explosives!

Just so he is not a man on an island, Fionn thanks for clearing that up and stating what is what. I love how certain folks think that certain facts are actually your opinion. Once again Jason is in his, "they can call a car a boat and that means it must be a boat or we the listeners must understand that the boat is the car which is being called the boat" mode. Now take that 'boat' errr I mean car to an auto-mechanic and call it a boat, then proceed to get laughed at. Seeing as I do not like to be considered ignorant I like the fact that Fionn and others share their knowledge freely. There is nothing wrong with the original post, we all "got" it, but Fionn IMHO was trying to help everyone learn something. God forbid. And he is correct, if we want to really get into this discussion then we best use the right terms. Again going to your auto-mechanic and telling him you have an issue with your engine, but call it a cucumber, will not get you anywhere fast, literally! As far as the idea that spawned this thread, I agree that it seems like a perfectly good support line and this backed up by the fact that it is a real honest to goodness tactic employed by armed forces around the world. My question would be whether or not it really is a MLR Support line? True the main gist of it is to fire at long range over the MLR, but more than likely considering the weapon systems mentioned would be it's most lethal when it supported the MLR during the eventual engagement. Obviously if these weapon systems are functional they will fire in defense of the MLR. Then again maybe it is just a support line, but if it does not support the MLR and you do not have an FSE then what does it support? I am possibly confusing to arguements here (the original and the IV line argument).

The '*' means damaged. This '**' means really damaged. 'BOOOOOOOM!' means damaged too much

I like what I see so far but will be honest, the vehicles look better but out place on the terrain. I would rather have the whole picture look better than just part of it look superb. Just my opinion, although like the fog picture!

One last tidbit! The unreality part was for Jason not you Pillar, and to be honest from strictly scholastic point of view I could care less what WWII vets called them, no disrespect my grandfather is a vet, but they also called PIVs "Tigers" all the time. Try justifying that in a thread!

I think I am going to choose the high ground with Fionn on this one. Jason do whatever you want just realize that your views would be an insult to true snipers. I know one, he would be insulted by your views that anyone could be a sniper. A shooter yes not a sniper. Lastly Pillar, most Sherman crews claimed everything was a Tiger also. What is your point? Just like a boat with a mounted gun is not a battleship, a man with a scoped rifle is not a sniper. Have fun in your unreality. So Fionn did you get that file from 'Gaunt?

Jason Is there a distinct class of soldier called sniper? Is there? Is there specific training to be a sniper? You know there is. Jason there are many people who call a half track a tank too. Hell I know folks who call any boat with a gun a battleship and any boat with a helicopter an aircraft carrier! Are they right? You see Jason that you can go and do whatever you want but in the literal sense in this case you are wrong. And by the way let me get this straight, they snipe so they are snipers. Okay fine, since I cook then I must be chef. Your logic is ridiculous, the original post said that there were snipers in CMBO, they are wrong as are you. Jason you know, you are like a computer, you spit out data just fine, but as soon you try to form an arguement or opinion you limitations keep creeping up on you. Here is you mission, answer my question, since I cook am I a chef? Cmon I know you can do it!

Actually I have a long standing girlfriend Degus. I believe you are looking for the Doom forums which are not at this site. There are certain realities in life. 2+2 = 4 And there are no Snipers in CMBO. You may deposit your apology on your way out.

Does being able to fix your toilet make you a plumber? Does being able to change the oil in your car make you an ASE certified mechanic? You can work a computer Jason, but can you put the letters MSE, CNA, CNE, or MCSE behind your name or on your resume? I think not. So yes there were "trained" snipers in WWII. There were also sharpshooters who were not trained specifically to be snipers. Both of them "sniped" at the enemy. Sharpshooters are in the game, snipers are not. And why we are at it, this is a non-arguement Jason as the creators of the game have already clearly and distinctly gave us the answer. They are not snipers. Go ahead bring it up with BTS, and once again be smacked down by the powers that be. At the very least it will be entertaining to watch. [ June 15, 2002, 12:46 AM: Message edited by: Priest ]

Brian On the Panther/T-34 issue, I have always got the impression from my readings that the Germans seriously considered just copying the T-34 but it was "national pride" that eventually caused the rejection of this idea. The "lowly" Russians had outdone them in a field in which they were supposed to be a world leader (tank design). To copy them would be admitting that, so they made a bigger and better T-34 (and more complicated) that was called the Panther. I agree that they could have never built on a 1 to 1 ratio but if you take the number of Panthers and Panzer IV's built in the last years of the war and turn them all into T-34s, what would you rather have?

Oh brother I cannot believe I am about to go to this level but here we go. The real issue is the use of the word Sniper. In CMBO the word used as a verb (snipe) is correct because the sharpshooters are doing just that. In Jason's response to me, Jason described this action. I would then be sniping. Sniper, as a noun, is a profession of sorts. Let me give you an example. Many of you on this forum and thread may be able to setup a network between some computers, but because of my specialized training and schooling I get to call myself a network engineer and you folks do not, at least not until you do what I did. So yes, SHARPSHOOTERS in CMBO SNIPE, but there are no SNIPERS in CMBO.

Jason, According to your logic (if you can call it that) I am off to the store to buy myself a scoped "sniper" rifle. Then I to can be a SNIPER!!! Didn't know it was sooo easy! (Please note the dripping intentional sarcasm!)

Austrian The M10s will have to flank, that will have them run into the guns. Then they will be dead. The Hetzer might have to take on one. The guns may die, I agree, but after they have fired for about three turns. Anywho my buy is this. 3 x Reg Rifle platoons 1 x Vet Shrek 1 x Reg Shrek 1 x Reg 81mm FO 1 x Reg Hetzer 5 x Reg 50mm ATG I have 8 AT weapon systems plus Fausts. I also have decent direct HE fire if for a short period of time. With this many guns no single artillery barrage is going to take them all out. Just my .02