Kurtz

The reason the PATGB (a Finnish SISU) got the 20 mm turret was because we had them. The turrets used to be mounted on the PBV 302 APC. The main problem with this gun on the PATGB is that you can't depress the gun very much (mainly because the turret is mounted to the rear). And sometimes it might be nice to have something less then at 20 mm gun. There's no coax mg in the turret. As a side-note: the 20 mm gun was originally used in the SAAB J-29 jet fighter in the 50's IIRC (these fighters were used in the UN mission in Congo in 1960 (?)). The Swedish military never throw anything away. After all, we bought MT-LBs when Germany was scrapping them! The PBV 302: To answer the bonus question: The CV 9040. 40 mm HE or AP. Bonus info: The STRV 122 uses 120 mm mortar rounds as HE. There's saying in Sweden: "You use what you have". Why develop a new round when the stocks of old mortar rounds can be used? It's used against lightly armoured targets as well. Adam L: what's a SODD 055?

What's the deal with the "spikes" in the first pic? Is it just to make it look meaner?

A 25 mm turret takes space inside the vehicle (=less dismounts), will probably need a dedicated gunner, weighs a lot and increases the size and cost of the vehicle. It's a trade-off. All vehicles can't have all features. The M1 tank has a big gun and lots of armour, but you can't airlift it in a C-130.

In addition to that, there is also the Weapons of Mass Distraction and Weapons of Mass Disappearance. Panzer76 is correct on "normal" the use of the term WMD. But we should use the term NBC (Nuclear, Biological, Chemical). After all, a 2000 lb bomb could cause more "mass destruction" then an artillery shell with mustard gas.

Yes, they have been toying with chemical weapons for the last 30 years. Unlike certain other countroes they are allowed to do so, but it's of course frowned upon.

Old RPG rounds were defeated with screens because the round was damaged. The firing circuit from the nose fuse to the base detonator was shorted, making the round a dud. US Army study on the RPG-7 (from 1975) - [PDF] Check pp 21-22 for countermeasures and stand-off distances. If the stand-off distance is 2 ft, penetration drops to 5 inches of RHA. (down from a maximum of 11 inches)

If anyone is really interested in what the US Army thought of the Sagger 30 years ago, you can buy TRADOC Bulletin 2: Soviet ATGMs: Capabilities and Countermeasures. I found Tradoc bulletin 3 about the the RPG-7 on the web for free, but this one isn't free.

Having ATGMs and 105 mm MGS doubles the anti-tank capability. A low-pressure gun might not be the best choice when it comes to tank-killing.

Apparently, not only German tanks ended up in Syria, nasty Germans found their way there as well.

Not surprising, since Libya issued an arrest warrant for Osama bin Laden through Interpol in 1998. IIRC Libya was the first country to do so.

Not surprising, since Libya issued an arrest warrant for Osama bin Laden through Interpol in 1998. IIRC Libya was the first country to do so.

Not surprising, since Libya issued an arrest warrant for Osama bin Laden through Interpol in 1998. IIRC Libya was the first country to do so.

Are they going to play musical chairs?

Yeah, I was just thinking of the scene in the movie where the Delta Force (?) guy packs everything and the regular guys leave most of their stuff behind, because "it's only going to be a short raid". Having to much stuff in your vehicle reduces your flexibility, but it's of course dependent on the tactical situation. But you'll probably need to carry more in "hot" situations. If the mission is a peace-keeping patrol, you don't not need to carry as much as when assualting a position and might encounter armoured vehicles.

Make it 67 so we can have the Syrian Panzer IVs

But take a look at Blackhawk Down for the consequences of leaving all your "nice-to-have" items at the base.

"The Kinetic Energy Missile, a long rod tungsten penetrator, accelerates up to 5000 feet per second and has five times the kinetic energy of current tank rounds." :eek: :eek: :eek:

Yes, Syria have used Panzer IVs! Thought you´d like to know. A 75/L48 should definitely be able to KO a Stryker! Apparently they last saw use in the Six-Day war in 1967. And by that time they were used as pillboxes on the Golan heights.

anti-iraqis? Is that Iranians or Americans?

The LAV-25 carries 6 dismounts, in addition to a three-man crew. Maybe that's not enough boots on the ground for the Army?

- Cost? - It takes space inside the vehicle needed for the 9-man rifle squad? - Current doctrine doesn't call for a 25 mm gun? - Size and weight considerations for airmobility? - It would lead to Strykers being used in a role they are not designed for? - Inter-service rivalry: The Marines have this gun, which makes the army think they can do just fine with a HMG? Just some guesses...

If the gunner use the telescopic sight, he might be able to stay "hull down"and reduce his visibility both visually and thermally. More SAGGER info from FAS From the Wikipedia article linked by JC_Hare: Some other intersting snippets: "The guidance panel can be located up to 15 meters from the launcher, and can control up to four launchers." "One missile can be set up, checked out, and fired in five minutes (12 to 15 minutes for all four missiles). " 5 minutes!!! :eek: I don't remember exactly the time limit for the BILL, but it was more like 10-15 seconds from carrying the system disassembled to first missile fired.

It´s interesting that Syria had about 700 AT-3s in 1990. The number increased to 3500 in 2000 and is expected to stay at 3000 for the foreseeable future. Maybe not all these launchers are obsolete ones from the 60's? Or have they bought surplus crap to boost the numbers? Anyway, penetration isn't everything. Behind-armour effects (overpressure, fragmentation) are very important as well, something early designs often lack.

Just as positioning an ATG in CMx1 where everyone can shoot back at it is a bad idea. Don't bite off more than you can chew. Assuming the rules of engagement allows this. CM:SF isn't World War Three, so firing suppresive fire at every suspected site might not be an option. I wasn't doubting the ability som spot a person at 1000 m with the thermal imager, but if you see several persons in the general direction - how do you know which one is the ATGM gunner and which one is just armed with a rusty AK-47?

Interesting, Renaud. Sounds like everything depends on spotting the actual launch. And after that, knowing which of the thermal signatures is the gunner. 8-10 seconds before the gun is in the right direction and ready to fire. It sounds like this won't be enough on short distances or fast missiles. If the range was 1000 meters you might not have time to fire back before the missile hits. It would take almost as long time before you could fire the coax MG, right? Sorry to remind you of this. What about the smoke grenade launchers? Are they used in a scenario like this, or is attack the prefered solution? Salkin: We didn't have those modern MT-LBs back in the day (89), they were still used by the enemy. We walked or rode in a soft-skinned vehicle (TGB13).