Wally's World

Okay, don't laugh but I want to make sure I got this straight. Later this week I will be purchasing an EVGA 7900GS 256MB PCI-E video card for my system. My PSU is an Antec SmartPower 450W with 15A and 17A on dual 12V rails. Now I read here in this forum that my PSU will be enough to power the new card along with my CPU (Athlon 64 3700+) and two hard drives, but I wa told that I need to make sure that the video card is on a separate rail than the rail with the CPU. The truly and really stupid questions I have are: How do I make sure that the video card power supply is on the other 12V rail from the CPU? Is it just a matter of plugging in the 6-pin power cord into the video card? In other words, how do I make sure the video card is one a separate 12V rail? I am lost when it comes to PSU's so that is why I am asking this very, very basic question. Many thanks for all replies.

Okay, thanks for all your advice, Redwolf. I was wondering if sticking with AGP was worth it. I'll go with a PCI-E card then.

Money, pure and simple. Is it worth it to pay more for a 7800 or 7900 card when DX10 will be coming out soon?

Sorry Redwolf, my PSU is actually an Antec SP-450W PSU with SmartPower 2.0 and the following: +3.3V 32A +5V 30A +12V1 15A +12V2 17A +5VSB 2A -12V 0.3A Antec SP-450 PSU I am no expert in regards to PSU's.

Thanks for the reply, Redwolf. I also only have a 430W PSU so I also have to consider the power load of the cards. 7800 cards require a minimum of 400W according to what I have read and with my system having two hard drives, I am wondering if I have enough juice to run a high-end 7800 card.

I am looking at replacing my Gigabyte 6600GT 128MB AGP card with a newer one, but with a smaller budget. My motherboard is the ASRock 939Dual (with an Athlon 64 3700+) which supports both AGP and PCI-E. The two cards I am looking at are: BFG 7600GT OC 256MB PCI-E for $200 CAD. 7600GT OC Or a BFG 7800GS OC 256MB AGP for $280 CAD. 7800GS According to tomshardware's VGA charts, the 7800GS appears to be faster than the 7600GT, but is it worth it to buy another AGP card instead of the new PCI-E standard? Any opinions would be really appreciated. [ September 11, 2006, 02:48 PM: Message edited by: Wally's World ]

I agree. I bought a 6600GT AGP last fall and it's doing the job very well. Won't even think of an video card upgrade until next year.

At the risk of wearing out my welcome with too many questions, my last questions are regarding dual core Athlons. I will either get a Athlon 64 3700+ CPU with 1MB cache; Or for an extra $120 CAD, get a Athlon 64 X2 3800+ with 2x512kb cache. I noticed that the 3700+ runs at 2.2Ghz while the dual core 3800+ runs at 2.0Ghz. Is it worth paying the extra money for dual core even though the dual CPU's separately run a bit slower than the 3700+ and there's really no games out right now to take advantage of the dual core? Or would it be a good investment for the future since some claim games will take advantage of dual core CPU's? Once again, many thanks for your really informing comments. [ April 27, 2006, 12:57 PM: Message edited by: Wally's World ]

Thanks Schrullenhaft and Redwolf for your replies and good advice. I have another techie question about hard drives. For the new machine, I want to install my old 60 GB hard drive as a slave alongside the new hard drive. Since the old drive is 4 years old, I am assuming it is a ATA-100 drive. Should I purchase a SATA II hard drive or a ATA hard drive in order to be able to use my old drive as a slave to the new one? In other words, can a ATA-100 drive be a slave to a new SATA drive? Thanks!

Thanks to both of you for your replies. Two more PC's to consider if you don't mind. I am trying to keep the price down as much as possible but with a decent gaming machine. These two machines are called a 'gaming' system by the store. Since I have XP, I would get a system without an operating system. Velocity EX3500+ $910 CAD or EX3800+ $1520 CAD Xpress EX3500+ ($910 CAD) * AMD Athlon64 3500+ Processor * MSI K8N Neo4-F Motherboard * 1GB (2x512MB) Kingston PC3200 DDR SDRAM * Supercase 115 Black Mid Tower w/Front USB * ATX 350W Power Supply * Samsung 250GB 7200RPM SATA II Hard Drive * Samsung 16x16 Dual Layer DVD-RW Drive * Gigabyte Geforce 6600GT 128MB PCI-E w/TV-Out, DVI * Onboard 8-Channel 7.1 Audio * Onboard Gigabit Ethernet * One Year Parts/Labour Warranty Xpress EX3800+ ($1520 CAD) * AMD Athlon64 3800+ Processor * MSI K8N Neo4 SLI-FI Motherboard * 2GB (2x1GB) Kingston PC3200 DDR SDRAM * Thermaltake Tsunami Dream Black Mid Tower * Enermax 535W SLI Power Supply * Samsung 250GB 7200RPM SATA II Hard Drive * Samsung 16x16 Dual Layer DVD-RW Drive * eVGA/Leadtek Geforce 7800GT 256MB PCI-E/VIVO, DVI * Onboard 8-Channel 7.1 Audio * Onboard Gigabit Ethernet * One Year Parts/Labour Warranty Is the second one listed here worth the extra $600 CAD? Many thanks again! [ April 24, 2006, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: Wally's World ]

Having given up trying to solve my old PC's problems and since it's probably the motherboard that's had it, I've decided to purchase a new PC and would greatly appreciate any advice on the following choices: Dual Core ($870 CAD) Choice 1 Gateway Dual Core Choice 1 WebID: 10070492 Mfr. Part Number: GT5028H Processor Type AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Dual Core 64-Bit Processor Speed 2.0GHz RAM 1024MB (2 x 512MB) (Exp. To 4GB) Hard Drive 250GB 7200RPM, 2MB Cache Optical Drives DVD +/- 16X Multi-Format Double Layer Graphics Card See The Features Section Available Expansion Bays 2 x 3.5" Available Expansion Slots 1 x PCI-E X16, 1 x PCI-E X1, 1 x PCI Cache 2 x 512KB L2 Disk Drive No Fax/Modem 56K ITU V.92 I/O Ports See The Features Section Included Software See The Features Section Monitor Included? Monitor Not Included Network Card 10/100Mbps Ethernet LAN (RJ-45 Port) Other Control Devices No Preloaded Operating System Microsoft Windows XP Media Center 2005 Sound Card 6-Channel (5.1) AC'97 Audio Speakers Amplified Stereo System Bus 2000MHz Warranty 1 Year Parts & Labour FEATURES: Graphics Card: NVIDIA GeForce 6100 GPU, Up To 128MB Shared Video Memory, PCI-Express (PCI-E X16) Slot Available I/O Ports: 7 x USB 2.0, VGA External Connector, IEEE 1394, 2 x PS/2, (Keyboard & Mouse) Dual Core ($850 CAD) Choice 2 Gateway Dual Core Choice 2 WebID: 10072976 Mfr. Part Number: GT5056H Processor Type AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Dual Core 64-Bit Processor Speed 2.0GHz RAM 1024MB DDR 400MHz (PC3200) Exp. To 4GB Hard Drive 250GB (7200 RPM, 2MB Cache) Optical Drives DVD +/- 16x Multi-Format Double Layer Graphics Card nVidia GeForce 6100 GPU Available Expansion Bays 2 x 3.5", 1 x 5.25" Available Expansion Slots 1 x PCI-E x16, 1 x PCI-E x1, 1 - PCI Cache 2 x 512KB L2 Disk Drive No Fax/Modem 56k ITU V.92 Ready I/O Ports See The Features Section Included Software See The Features Section Monitor Included? Monitor Not Included Network Card 10/100 Mbps Ethernet LAN (RJ-45 Port) Other Control Devices Info Not Available Preloaded Operating System MS Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 Sound Card 6-Channel 5.1 AC'97 Audio Speakers Amplified Stereo System Bus 2000MHz Warranty 1 Year Parts And Labour FEATURES: I/O Ports: 7 x USB 2.0 Ports (2 in front, 1 in Digital Media Manager, 4 in back), 1 x VGA External Connector, 3 x IEEE 1394 port (2 in front, 1 in back), 1 x Parallel Port, 2 x PS/2 Ports (Keyboard and Mouse) I am looking a dual core AMD machine and plan to put in a BFG Geforce 7600GT OC 256MB PCI-E in either to replace the onboard 6100 video. I use the PC mostly for gaming, but also for homework and word processing. Is a dual core the way to go? Or for gaming should I stick with single core? I want my new machine along with the 7600GT to be capable for a few years at least. :confused: Any opinions are greatly appreciated.

After replacing the PSU with a more powerful on, I'm still having problems with random freezes and then sometimes a C1 post code on my 8RDA+ motherboard. A close inspection showed about 5 capacitors with crude on the top of them. Does this mean my 8RDA+ is toast? *** Update *** Weird thing here. I decided to experiment with the voltage settings in the BIOS and by bumping up the DIMM voltage to 2.90V (from first the default voltage and then 2.77V), my system seems to have stabilized. Before I couldn't run it for 5-10 minutes without a freeze, now it's been running for almost an hour with no problems. Just hoping it will stay that way. I also changed the memory timings to 3-3-3-10 to stabilize the memory. From what I've read on the internet, 10 or 11 seem to be the best timing for my motherboard (nForce2) and it appears that the memory timings don't have much if any affect on system speed anyway. Does bumping up the DIMM voltage and upping the memory settings make sense? Admittedly I am just grasping in the dark. Many thanks for any replies. [ April 22, 2006, 11:40 AM: Message edited by: Wally's World ]

Have you run MemTest since the new memory module? Yes, MemTest ran fine with the new module. Have you physically checked the mobo for bulging capacitors? Motherboard looks good. Can't physically see any problems. Actually my PC has been running just fine the last three days. No problems or issues whatsoever. I even overclocked my 6600GT again by about 5%. Will continue to keep an eye on it.

Hpt. Lisse, my Barton usually stays around 49-50C at idle and climbs as high as 54C at heavy load. I've only seen it climb once to 60C and that was when my old case fan was going. I've replaced it since. Last night, the CPU was hovering around 50C after playing CM.

Many thanks to both of you for your help. This weekend, I'll go buy a PSU and install it.

Thanks Schrullenhaft and Redwolf both for your posts. I did try running the video card at the stock speeds and I still had random freezes even in just XP's loading screen. Therefore based upon your advice, I need a new PSU. I am either looking at the Enermax 420W EG425P-VE SFMA Noisetaker: Enermax PSU Or the Antec TruePower 2.0 430W: Antec PSU I don't think I need a more powerful PSU, but can I get away with a smaller unit like a 350W or a 380W based upon my config? Sorry, but PSU info is foreign to me although I am learning.

Non-CM related problem if you don't mind. Three days ago, my PC all of a sudden started freezing at random times. Could happen anytime, during a game of CM, cruising the web or viewing the desktop. Can happen 10 minutes after logging on or after 3-4 hours of no problems. Everything will just freeze and ALT-DEL-CTRL will not work. The freezing will also occur while I am in just in BIOS or even while Windows XP is loading (during the loading screen). Only solution is to hit the Reset button on the case to reboot the machine. It usually reboots fine, but once in a while after hitting the Reset button and trying to reboot, the motherboard's (Epox 8RDA+) alarm will go off with a post code of 25. At this point, I have to turn off the PC with the power button at the back of the machine and then restart. Post code 25 for this motherboard shows up as 'Reserved' in the Epox manual. However research on the web indicates possible issues: 1) BIOS is corrupted at which I should clear CMOS 2) Video card problems (GeForce 6600GT) 3) PSU issues I don't think it's an overheating issue as the CPU temp hangs around 54-60C and the video card around 64C. Now I do overclock my video card by about 7% and when I upgraded my PC last year with a new CPU (Athlon 2800+ Barton) and the 6600GT, the tech told me that the PSU is almost at borderline with the hardware. I have no idea what the PSU other than it's one of those generic PSU's that was installed with the original build of the machine 3.5 years ago. I did add another RAM module a couple of weeks ago and the machine has been running fine until last Friday. And it was running fine with the new CPU and video card since last fall. I did clear CMOS last night and the machine booted and ran fine for about 30 minutes while I changed some of the default BIOS settings to what I want. And then I shut it down for the night. Maybe clearing CMOS will solve the problem. Or is it the overclocking of the video card is putting pressure on the PSU? But I have overclocked the card since I installed it last fall. Could the PSU be failing or be too small for the hardware? Any other suggestions or ideas would be truly appreciated. Many thanks to any and all replies. Specs: Epox 8RDA+ Athlon 2800+ Barton 1 gig PC2700 Ram (1x512, 2x256) 60G hard drive GeForce 6600GT (overclocked manually by 7%) 1 50x CD-RW drive 1 floppy drive 1 Vantec 80mm case Stealth fan [ April 04, 2006, 10:24 AM: Message edited by: Wally's World ]

Thanks everyone for all your advice. The problem was the memory timings in my BIOS were set too low (Turbo 2-2-2-6). I instead bumped the timings up to just Aggressive (3-3-3-7) and I've had no problems since. Memtest ran fine. And I even still got the dual channel mode running on my motherboard with now three DIMM's (1-512, 2-256). Thanks again!

Thanks very much for the replies. Anyway I did go out buy the 512MB chip and installed it in my PC. However, it doesn't seem to want to work too well with either my motherboard or with my other RAM chips. By the way, My 2800+ is just an ordinary Athlon and not the 64. I installed the new Mushkin 512MB PC3200 (3-3-3-8) in slot 2 to start with as slot 1 had my generic 256MB PC2700 chip and slot 3 had the Kingston 256MB PC2700 in which both ran in dual channel. My Epox 8RDA+ board immediately responded with a C1 error code to indicate bad memory. I then moved the 512 to slot 3 and move the Kingston to slot 2. The PC started find and reported 1 gig of RAM in dual channel mode(!). Windows XP loaded fine and when I ran CPU-Z, it also reported dual channel and 1 gig of RAM. However, the PC then started act funny (weird graphics started appearing) and would reboot itself. In other words, very unstable. I then tried the 512 chip in slot 1 and the two 256 chips in slots 2 and 3. Again, a C1 bad memory error appeared. In fact, even when using the 512 chip by itself in slot 1, the memory error still occured. It appears that the only time the 512 chip will work is in slot 3 and then it's very unstable. Could it be a bad 512 chip? Or maybe the board doesn't like having two PC2700 chips with a PC3200 chip? Or could it even be that Mushkin chips don't work well on my 8RDA+? On Epox's website, Mushkin is not listed as a perferred type of RAM to use with this board. Should I return the PC3200 and get a Kingston 512MB PC2700 instead? Forgive my ignorance of RAM and its workings. That is the one area I have problems understanding inside a PC. Many thanks again for additional help.

A non-CM related techie question if you don't mind. I currently have two 256MB PC2700 RAM chips with dual memory enabled in a Epox 8RDA+ motherboard with an Athlon 2800+ and a 6600GT with Windows XP. I have a chance to buy a 512MB PC3200 chip pretty darn cheap and was wondering if going from 512MB to 1 Gig RAM while losing dual memory is worth it? From reading on the web, some say dual memory is worth it while others say it isn't. The 8RDA+ only has three RAM slots so it's either the two 256 chips and one 512 chip or else stay with the two 256 chips with dual memory enabled. I don't want to buy two 512 chips right now to enable dual memory (and remove the 256 chips) if dual memory isn't worth it. Should I bump myself up to 1 gig of RAM (2 256's and 1 512) or stick with dual memory enabled at 512MB (2 256's)? Any opinions would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks in advance. [ February 23, 2006, 06:31 PM: Message edited by: Wally's World ]

I think but not certain, that if a flag changed hands in the last few turns, the battle will continue.

Thanks for the replies.

I know some may condemn me for posting this thread after Redwolf told me to get a plain 6800 over an overclocked 6600GT while I read that Schrullenhaft recommends the 6600GT. After reading some reviews over the internet, I'm not convinced that the 6800 is the way to go between the two. I'd appreciate any suggestions over which card to purchase. My machine is going to be (after upgrade next week) a XP3000+ on a Epox 8RDA+ motherboard. CARD 1: BFG GeForce™ 6600 GT OC 128MB GDDR AGP Core clock: 525MHz Memory clock: 1050MHz $249.99 Cdn Card 2: Gigabyte GV-N68128DH 6800 128MB DDR AGP Core clock: 325MHz Memory clock: 700MHz No cooling fan, so super quiet. $330 Cdn I admit I was ready to get the 6800 card, but the following review sort of tuned my off of it. Especially the DDR memory with the 6800. I would really appreciate any opinions. Gigabyte 6800 Review Just in case you have to register on the review's website, here's some comments from the review: "In this configuration, the 6800 is perhaps the most resoundingly average GPU in Nvidia's current line-up. A bog-standard GeForce 6800 isn't going to stun anyone with its awesome power, although it's still nippy at medium resolutions. In fact, its overall performance is very similar to the cheaper GeForce 6600 GT cards.In Far Cry, at 1,280 x 1,024 with 2x AA and 2x AF, the N68 averaged 42.2fps, a fraction behind Sparkle's 6600 GT which managed 43.8fps. At the same settings, the results were similar in Half-Life 2, with the N68 running through our new benchmark at an average of 44.5fps, compared to Sparkle's 47.8fps." "Although the N68 has four more pixel pipelines than the GeForce 6600 GT, it's clearly let down by its slower memory. Ordinary DDR RAM is not the quickest, and the GeForce 6800's extra pixel pipelines don't appear to make up for the 6600 GT's more efficient design either. Despite this, the N68 is clearly capable of playing the latest games at 1,280 x 1,024 with anti-aliasing and anisotropic filtering, and full detail, and that's what really matters." "Where the N68 really falls down is in its choice of GPU. The GeForce 6800 is not the best chip Nvidia currently produces. Having 12 pipelines means the GPU has plenty of firepower, but it also makes it more expensive. To offset this, the RAM has been downgraded from GDDR3 to DDR. This makes the card a lot less efficient when AA and AF are turned on, and this shows in the N68's benchmarks. The N68 costs £60 more than most GeForce 6600 GTs, and yet it gives almost exactly the same performance." [ July 28, 2005, 11:16 AM: Message edited by: Wally's World ]

Thanks, Redwolf.

This is a great thread! I'm going to be upgrading my PC from an XP 1800+ to a XP 3000+. But I'm also looking at a video card to replace my trusty Ti4200-8x, the BFG GeForce 6600GT OC 128MB card caught my fancy. Considering that the 6800's are pretty expensive right now, would going to a 6600GT OC from my old card be worth it especially with my CPU upgrade coming within the next two weeks? Or would I better off waiting for the 6800's to drop in price a bit in about 6 months? By the way, I'm in no rush to replace my video card. Thanking all for the replies... [ July 21, 2005, 01:59 PM: Message edited by: Wally's World ]