peter tilbury

any chance of getting the update on CD. I don't have hours to spend dowloading the mulilingual patch; and every time I try to resume download my application (Getright) can't find the mirror!

wouldn't zusammengewürfelt be more like a thrown together unit; nameless is not negative enough and does not suggest haste

Born in London, now living outside Landshut, Germany

Ad-hoc?

I didn't want to download in one go, and found that every time I tried to reconnect to continue downloading 1.02, that I got a cannot reconnect no UUl message, forcing me to do it one go. As the multilingual patch is more than twice as large, I don't fancy being connected for a couple of hours to download and install.

I have GetRight and I had the same problem; so I downloaded in one sitting, only to discover that the German download does not in fact indicate that it has upgraded the game. I've given up on 1.02 and will wait till it comes out on a CD somewhere.

Cheers. It took me ages to download the German version; I don't fancy downloading another weightly file. Thanks anyway

I have the German version and have updated to 1.02. The procedure runs smoothly enough and I receive my successfully installed message; however, the game opening screen still gives me the 1.01 as the version installed. Has anybody encountered this; have I 1.01 still or 1.02? Any takers?

I think you will find that both versions exist , although I'm a "spelt" person myself. [ October 17, 2002, 12:02 PM: Message edited by: pt ]

JonS no offence given or hopefully taken . Thanks for the discussion. Perhaps we can wrap this one up by saying attention to detail in one area is a general indication of the attention paid elsewhere - this certainly comes through when I marke people's work at college. [ October 17, 2002, 08:53 AM: Message edited by: pt ]

Best thing to do is finish it leave for a couple of days and then return to it. That would reduce the number of errors dramatically, or should do.

to pick up a few quotes, to temper my agreement or give my wholehearted support: It's not just a matter of the manual not being the "Main product" Exactly, but I am trying to be nice and find an excuse for poor quality control "Nonetheless I am of the opinion that there is no excuse for even half a dozen typos in a printed manual... how unexpected it is. Fully agree. However, I have come to expect it in most games manuals. Perhaps because I have to cope with an extra layer of quality control in the form of translation. The spelling errors in the scenario briefings themselves also speak of a rushed product. Can't speak for this as I have the German version. I get the impression the translation has not been done by professionals or people not versed in proofreading - keeps prices down though doesn't it. Last point: " Jon has a point - really once the manual is in the hands of the purchaser there is no more selling to do. Disagree; they want me to buy another game from them. A good manual would be part of customer loyalising. Will I buy a BMW if the one I just bought is more a bummer than a beamer, I certainly look at Audi next time wouldn't I plus the marketing blurb as well as it all counts doesn't it and if the manufacturer makes multiple errors in his advertising how does that spill over onto my estimation of the product? Pascal: The Archer was the turning point of the battle - one small point and no offence but I prefer Peter to Pete [ October 16, 2002, 10:02 AM: Message edited by: pt ]

JonS: first of all I am not arguing with you in any way or form. And if you like I can take back the word welter which seems to be taking a bizarre turn on the thread and any other infelidelities on my part. I would return to the point that the industry accepts a certain level of shoddy workmanship in the production of written material. My assumption is, like you, that it is not considered a core part of the business and takes a back seat to the product rather than being considered an integral part, hence it's reduction, pdf-ing and probably eventual demise. I mention translation again now, although I have the feeling that this is what happens in the original too. A text is produced and then as an afterthought somebody says they need it translated. They get hold of anybody, undertake no quality control of their own because they are unacquainted with the problems involved and you get, in my opinion, a qualitively poorer product. Some/many original English manuals I have for games also smack of midnight oil or afterthought and seem thrown together; this need not be the case, however: the FC2 manual is a sound piece of work, but in those days perhaps the product cycle time was lower. The bottom line is I pay for a product and what this product contains, in my opinion, is an integral part of the product. At the moment I can buy a game that has a poor manual and needs patching - hardly an ideal "gaming experience". When I buy a novel I buy the story, the binding, the spelling - everything that adds to the "reading experience". I just imagine the novel in my example has been properly proof-read with a suitable amount of lead-in time - that is the be all and end all of the story. We all make mistakes; I have just translated a welcoming speech for a company president, I'm getting it checked and there be things in it that I haven't picked up. [ October 16, 2002, 07:41 AM: Message edited by: pt ]

JonS, I don't believe we diverge too much. I am talking about the quality of written material; this material can be translated (requiring an extra layer of quality control) or original English. It must be me then, but a dozen mistakes is bad isn't it? If I can read a six-hundred page novel and find (n)one and this on a regular basis, a dozen strikes me as shoddy quality control. Again I'm not singling out battlefront or anything, the nature of the business seems to generate this type of workmanship. I would suggest that you do not consider it bad because the standard of manuals in the computer game industry is generally poor - can we concur on that. I suppose in the same way that we have come to accept that all games will be patched to the hilt at some point to iron out bugs - the ripe banana issue - therefore just a dozen mistakes seems ok. [ October 16, 2002, 07:02 AM: Message edited by: pt ]

JonS: I translate and proof-read for a living. I took a random couple of pages from the German manual and found several mistakes per page. BAd luck perhaps? I'm sorry but where I come from that is a welter. If I produced Annual Reports like that the company wouldn't give me another contract assuming they had the good sense to get it proofread by another translator or proofreader. When I used to work in a translation department we would ring the translator up and harange him or her if there were just several errors in a similar sized text as it shows that it has not been checked for simple spelling mistakes. Size of text has nothing to do with it, professionalism does - I've proofread annual reports of over a hundred pages with perhaps one minor error - that text has been reread beforehand, that's quality, that's professional. But this is the industry as a whole and is no snipe at anybody here but you would agree I think it detracts from the whole. I've even purchased games here in Germany where a whole chunk of English suddenly appears amongst the German because the translator simply missed it out. It shows it has been done in a rush, the translator didn't or wasn't allowed to check it, and nobody proof-read it. Whether UK English or US English depends on the policy of the company there is even a Mid-Atlantic English that is very often used by companies here to hedge their bets. Most people wouldn't realise what the difference is in many cases - percent=US per cent= UK; a US billion is not really a UK billion but we have all accepted it as such; realise = UK but realize is UK and US etc.- but believe me there is US and UK English and just plain wrong. [ October 16, 2002, 03:46 AM: Message edited by: pt ]

There are a welter of spelling mistakes in the manaul as well as actual CM2 German version which should have been picked up at the proof-reading stage (Briese for example in the template), but computer games abound with poor proof-reading so if the experts can't get it right...

KNac apology accepted but opinions differ and nobody is wrong [ October 09, 2002, 03:39 AM: Message edited by: pt ]

CMBO was ground breaking, CMBB is the refinement - other than that there is not too much to say

I was going to hang on till at least the UK version came, but what with all these rumours on the one hand, and rave reviews on the other, I saw it on the shelf and am sad to say succumbed and have the German version - and am sending off for at least the US manual - it could have been handled better though, couldn't it. [ September 29, 2002, 08:35 AM: Message edited by: pt ]

Good, then I bow to superior mother-tongue knowledge. Penetration means both entering and not exiting of a body, as well as entering and exiting of a body. It would be difficult to have a word in German that subsumes these two nuances of meaning: durchschlagen and durchdringen excluding one sense, whereas eindringen excludes the other. What would you say for a shot that only produces spalling, durchschlagen would'nt work...or would it? [ September 24, 2002, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: pt ]

rollsoty: I'm not a native speaker but I think Durchschlag sounds a bit strange for penetration. Shouldn't it be something like durchdringen or eindringen. The Brinell hardness test uses the concept of eindringe in German for example. [ September 24, 2002, 10:07 AM: Message edited by: pt ]

41 in March

Here in Germany I have seen CMBO in Mediamarkt and Karlstadt, i.e. the major computer store outlets and department store chains. Yet to read anything about in the gaming press though.

I was also quite surprised about the release, as far as I know there was no marketing campaign at all as a run-up oder?

Of course one can't exclude the fact that they were speaking with the benefit of hindsight (by the way most people on this thread are doing the same of course), but it is an interesting slant on a well-established view. In fact, it is quite interesting sometimes to watch German documentaries on the war; they often and understandably have a slightly different angle on things in contrast to what I (and presumably most others expressing an opinion on this thread) was brought up on as a child.