Bullethead

I recently captured an HMG team that had been reduced to 1 man. As usual with 1-man HMG teams, the unit was immobilized. However, it remained so after I captured it. This struck me as a bit strange, considering I was not allowing him to carry his heavy weapon any longer OTOH, maybe he knows the position of the unit that captured him is about to get shelled, and he doesn't want to go over there ------------------ -Bullethead It was a common custom at that time, in the more romantic females, to see their soldier husbands and sweethearts as Greek heroes, instead of the whoremongering, drunken clowns most of them were. However, the Greek heroes were probably no better, so it was not so far off the mark--Flashman [This message has been edited by Bullethead (edited 08-04-2000).]

Pillar said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Conclusion? They are the same thing, only the CMMC is much bigger and more fully devloped! I wanted to write this letter openly to everyone to appologize for my ignorance of the whole CMMC! It seems I've gone and (unintentionally) reinvented it! Until I spoke to Matt today, I didn't know it was more than an expanded multi-player CM.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I am rather heavily involved in developing CMMC, and I can say that I'm very, very glad you've got this RPG thing going. I think your RPG and CMMC compliment each other perfectly. People will always want to play this sort of game, but as you now know, they are a LOT of work to set up. So I think it's great to have your simpler version available more frequently than full-blown CMMC campaigns. Were I not so busy writing CMMC rules, I'd be playing in your RPG without doubt. There is a precedent for both types of campaigns, BTW. Over in MP flightsim land (AW, WB, and perhaps even AH by now), there are both types of campaigns. They work great together, with the small versions available every week or so and the big ones every few months. Most people who play in 1 type play in both. So best of luck with the RPG thing. Maybe I can get in one later this year. ------------------ -Bullethead It was a common custom at that time, in the more romantic females, to see their soldier husbands and sweethearts as Greek heroes, instead of the whoremongering, drunken clowns most of them were. However, the Greek heroes were probably no better, so it was not so far off the mark--Flashman

Still 37 in this incarnation, and still in combat putting wet stuff on red stuff. Let's see Los ruck that ------------------ -Bullethead It was a common custom at that time, in the more romantic females, to see their soldier husbands and sweethearts as Greek heroes, instead of the whoremongering, drunken clowns most of them were. However, the Greek heroes were probably no better, so it was not so far off the mark--Flashman

Sneaky said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Bullethead: That really got me laughing...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That's a first. Every other time I've said that, or been in a bar where that's been said, the result has been an immediate brawl. It always starts with some Irishman saying "we gave your ancestors whiskey, kilts, and bagpipes as going-away presents, but we forgot to mention the last 2 were jokes". Then some Scot says the wheelbarrow thing, and then it's all bloody knuckles. Such behavior is, of course, genetically predisposed for Celts. They say, "where there are Irish there's bound to be fighting, and when there's no fighting, t'is Ireland no more," but that holds true for all the other Celts as well. They hate everybody, but they hate each other more than anybody else ------------------ -Bullethead It was a common custom at that time, in the more romantic females, to see their soldier husbands and sweethearts as Greek heroes, instead of the whoremongering, drunken clowns most of them were. However, the Greek heroes were probably no better, so it was not so far off the mark--Flashman

RMC said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>It almost two years now since I asked for some Piper units in CM.... As I recall the trade off was either Free French or Pipers. I think we got a bum deal.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Aye, a very bum deal So how about having Pipers in the maybe-to-be CM "vehicle pack" expansion, along with US flak tracks? ------------------ -Bullethead It was a common custom at that time, in the more romantic females, to see their soldier husbands and sweethearts as Greek heroes, instead of the whoremongering, drunken clowns most of them were. However, the Greek heroes were probably no better, so it was not so far off the mark--Flashman

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>You realize the Irish brought and taught the pipes to the Scottish. And they still don't get the joke.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> And of course you realize that the wheelbarrow was the most important technological advance to reach the Irish, because it taught them to walk on 2 legs. (And the brawl is on as Celt fights Celt while the damn Sassenachs, following Roman example, divide and conquer ) ------------------ -Bullethead It was a common custom at that time, in the more romantic females, to see their soldier husbands and sweethearts as Greek heroes, instead of the whoremongering, drunken clowns most of them were. However, the Greek heroes were probably no better, so it was not so far off the mark--Flashman [This message has been edited by Bullethead (edited 08-03-2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>BH, I'm looking right at American Airborne units on a May 45 purchase screen.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yup, they're sho'nuff there now. Hmmm, and I checked this before I posted that, too. So it wasn't a 1.03 fix as far as I can tell. Wonder what the deal is? ------------------ -Bullethead It was a common custom at that time, in the more romantic females, to see their soldier husbands and sweethearts as Greek heroes, instead of the whoremongering, drunken clowns most of them were. However, the Greek heroes were probably no better, so it was not so far off the mark--Flashman

Mortiis said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>How do you know if your sniper took out a leader in a squad?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I think this is why the suppression value of snipers is so high against a squad, considering only 1 rifle bullet fired. It either takes out or freaks out the squad leader. Tommi said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Actually, there were some snipers who could consistently hit moving targets at 400 meters. Admittedly, they were very rare and usually wouldn't be found in the middle of a heated combat. There were exceptions to that rule, though<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yeah, I agree on all points. And CM snipers do miss such targets at times. But they still have a very high success rate. Perhaps too high? ------------------ -Bullethead It was a common custom at that time, in the more romantic females, to see their soldier husbands and sweethearts as Greek heroes, instead of the whoremongering, drunken clowns most of them were. However, the Greek heroes were probably no better, so it was not so far off the mark--Flashman

DrD started to say: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Therefore I propose that congress pass a new law....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> BH quickly gives DrR a vertical buttstroke from an M1903A3. Have any of you ever seen how much shelf space the US Code, the Code of Federal Regulations, and all the court decisions interpreting them take up? If you did, you'd be horrified. Believe me, there are AT LEAST 2 federal laws and/or regulations covering every conceivable aspect of human life. This is on top of all the state laws, state regulations, and state court decisions. Every law passed by definition is a usurpation of individual liberty. We are no longer a free people. We need no more laws. Anybody who proposes a new law, of whatever type, must be shot on sight. You're lucky to get off with being rifle-whipped ------------------ -Bullethead It was a common custom at that time, in the more romantic females, to see their soldier husbands and sweethearts as Greek heroes, instead of the whoremongering, drunken clowns most of them were. However, the Greek heroes were probably no better, so it was not so far off the mark--Flashman

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Are there any pratical/historical/logical reason for this not to be implemented?!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes, there are . Given the in-game factors that affect how much time it takes for a spotter to get rounds on target (LOS, TRP, and experience level), it seems apparent to me that the delay time before the FFE starts is CM's way of dealing with the process of adjusting fire onto the target. For a TRP, arty has ALREADY been adjusted onto that spot, so basically your only wait is for the message to get through to the guns, the guns to be aimed at the pre-set coordinates, and the shells to travel several miles to you. If you don't have a TRP, then the FO has to adjust the battery's fire until it's landing in the desired place. This is because the FO's target location sent to the guns is only an estimate relative to the map's grid system. So the guns have to fire spotting rounds and the FO has to send back instructions on how to move the impacts to the desired point. This may take several shots. Not having an LOS to the desired target area increases the time required for the adjusting process because either the FO is having to adjust by sound only (hard to do when there is other shooting going on) or has to wait for smoke to build up above the LOS blocks. So there is a chance that the spotting rounds won't be seen by the FO, requiring the battery to fire more of them, and the FO's processing of each spotting round also takes longer. High experience decreases the time required because the FO is more accurate in estimating the target's grid position. This means the 1st spotter round will be closer to the target, meaning less spotter rounds are required. Also, an experienced FO is a better judge of the corrections required to hit the target, and is smoother and more efficient in communicating these to the guns. Therefore, simply telling the guns what target you will shoot at but not letting them fire will not save you any significant amount of time. Until the guns start firing, there can be no adjustment, and the adjustment process is what takes up all the time before the FFE starts. Having said all this, however, there are a few realistic things CM could add that would do sorta what you want. A good one would be in-game TRP creation. This is because once arty fires FFE at an adjusted target, that target is assigned a unique target number or name by the FO and the gunners write down the firing data they used to hit it. IOW, they have created a TRP at the spot where they fired last. So say early in the game you shoot a non-TRP location. After a couple turns of bombardment, you switch to another target on the other side of the map. But then the 2nd enemy wave moves through the area of your first bombardment. You should be able to hit that same spot again as if it was a TRP, with very low delay times because there is no longer a need to adjust fire there. Of course, on-map mortars should NOT be able to fire indirect at TRPs made during the play of the battle, because they are not part of the same communications net. I also have a nit to pick with TRPs in general. IMHO, there should be narrow rings around them at 100m and 200m radii where you would get the same or nearly the same time benefits of the TRP. This is because FOs can tell the guns to shoot like "200m azimuth 3200 mils from TRP #4". At the guns, this is a very simple tweak off the known data of the TRP's coordinates so should not require much, if any, adjusting prior to FFE. So I'd give such missions the same or maybe only slightly more delay as shooting at the TRP itself. This would apply to both pre-set and in-game TRPs. On the same subject, I take a bit of issue with how you can "adjust" an on-going fire mission. IMHO, the radius around the current point of aim in which the targeting line is lime green (and delay times low) is in the wrong place. It looks like about a 50m radius. Normally, given the spacing of impacts and the kill radius of the explosions, FOs wouldn't even bother with such small moves. So instead, I propose that the low-delay fire shifting be handled as described for TRPs above, being available only at 100m and 200m radii from the current point of impact. ------------------ -Bullethead It was a common custom at that time, in the more romantic females, to see their soldier husbands and sweethearts as Greek heroes, instead of the whoremongering, drunken clowns most of them were. However, the Greek heroes were probably no better, so it was not so far off the mark--Flashman

PzKfw 1 said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>My problem with mortars is that they are being used as AT weapons in CM, an mortar crew will drop any target they have to shoot at an AFV<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I am coming to the same conclusion. Mortars, even 2", should be able to kill or maim vehicles if they hit them. And they should be able to hit them fairly easily if they are moving slow or are stationary (up to a point--bipod mortars would either have to free-tube or shift legs to track them if they moved very far). But the AI's obsessiveness for using mortars as AT weapons is a bit much, IMHO. I too have observed the AI pulling mortars off of grunt targets I have given them and switching to AFVs further distance away. This is almost always the result; hence, when fighting a highly mechanized enemy, I cannot rely on my mortars to support grunt vs. grunt actions. They are instead freelance AT weapons and I have to deal with that The other issue I mentioned above is the ability of mortars to track moving targets. This was a big issue in the original beta demo, where the German tracks in the LD scenario just were 60mm mortar fodder. There was a discussion on the subject of free-tubing and shifting bipods, and the result was we were told that mortars would only be able to track a moving target a few degrees, then have to stop firing for a while to adjust the bipod. I was unable to verify whether this actually got implemented in the Gold demo, however, because its scenarios didn't raise the issue. Now that I have the full game, it does look like at least 2" mortars can track moving targets without restriction. Of course, these things didn't have bipods so didn't have "traverse limits" like bipod mortars. But target speed doesn't seem to be a factor affecting accuracy. Regardless of vehicle speed, the 2" mortar bursts keep pace and eventually there's a hit. Of course, given the lack of Allied squad-level AT weapons, I'm very grateful for every 2" mortar. They don't do much good against dug-in grunts, but they sure are Hell on light armor . But I do think that they are too accurate vs. high speed vehicles, and I wish the AI wouldn't commandeer them for AT use when I have other plans for them. ------------------ -Bullethead It was a common custom at that time, in the more romantic females, to see their soldier husbands and sweethearts as Greek heroes, instead of the whoremongering, drunken clowns most of them were. However, the Greek heroes were probably no better, so it was not so far off the mark--Flashman

I have seen this problem many times with my mortars but never anything else. Usual scenario is I have a grunt advance going and run into some dug-in enemy grunts and MGs. I am usually prepared for such problems by having MGs and mortars ready. So I set up my base of fire with some of the grunts and add the MGs and mortar HE fire for good measure while I try to get a maneuver element in position to assault. But the damn mortars often start firing smoke on their own initiative, obscuring the target and thus stopping all my suppressive fire. Even other mortars with HIDE orders, but with an LOS to the enemy, sometimes join in the smokefest without any orders at all. Net result is a delay in my attack while I wait for the smoke to clear so I can suppress the enemy before the assault. Rather annoying. From seeing this, it appears to me that the mortar AI is of the opinion that no assault is complete without a smokescreen. I disagree. Smoke is for special situations. Common situations like the above are why troops are issued rifles, MGs, and HE ammo. But anyway, if mortars have this opinion, perhaps ATGs and IGs think the same way? ------------------ -Bullethead It was a common custom at that time, in the more romantic females, to see their soldier husbands and sweethearts as Greek heroes, instead of the whoremongering, drunken clowns most of them were. However, the Greek heroes were probably no better, so it was not so far off the mark--Flashman

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>If you can keep them alive that is. They are easily taken out by close assaults.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> They are also very easily destroyed just by smallarms fire. The crew often bails. Rather frustrating at times. Makes me wonder whether the small arms resolution routine is properly taking into account the shielding around guns in ragtop vehicles. Or on towed guns, for that matter. ------------------ -Bullethead It was a common custom at that time, in the more romantic females, to see their soldier husbands and sweethearts as Greek heroes, instead of the whoremongering, drunken clowns most of them were. However, the Greek heroes were probably no better, so it was not so far off the mark--Flashman

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Exactly how potent are snipers in CM?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Very. They are supernaturally accurate, able to kill sprinting grunts and stampeding trucks/jeeps at 400m and 90^ deflection. Thus, the have little problem hitting closer, more stationary targets. They are very good at picking off AFV commanders and grunt leaders. Plus their fire, even when they miss, has a suppression effect out of all proportion to the number of bullets in the air, due to the target's knowledge that a sniper is aiming at HIM personally. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> The manual doesn't say anything about them and I have a couple to deploy but don't know how fragile, or deadly they are in the game...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The best way to deploy them is in places where they don't have to deal with enemy grunts walking right up on them. Being only 1 man firing only the occasional single shot, they are very hard to spot, but if an enemy squad gets close, it's good-bye Mr. Sniper. Snipers also make good scouts to detect and delay the enemy on otherwise covered avenues of approach. And in the attack they are excellent at picking off pesky MG, mortar, and ATG/IG crews. However, they are a lot easier to spot when they are moving, so using cover and sneak or crawl orders seems to be the best plan. Snipers are only 1 man so it only takes 1 casualty to wipe them out. And as a type of grunt they are vulnerable to every weapon on the battlefield. Thus, their main defense is stealth and as noted above, they are quite hard to see if deployed correctly. But a spotted sniper is usually a dead sniper. As to using them, it's generally best NOT to give them specific target orders if there is a choice of enemy units out there. Only target something if it's worth losing the sniper over. Otherwise, just let the AI decide what to shoot at and when to do it. The AI takes into account the likelihood of the sniper being detected, so won't shoot if it thinks it's too dangerous. This can lead to frustration at times, as you wonder why the sniper isn't shooting, but the AI is much better at determining the odds of the sniper being seen if it fires, so just let the man do his job . ------------------ -Bullethead It was a common custom at that time, in the more romantic females, to see their soldier husbands and sweethearts as Greek heroes, instead of the whoremongering, drunken clowns most of them were. However, the Greek heroes were probably no better, so it was not so far off the mark--Flashman

I have noticed that there are no US airborne units available in the editor for the last month in 1945. Is that intentional? ------------------ -Bullethead It was a common custom at that time, in the more romantic females, to see their soldier husbands and sweethearts as Greek heroes, instead of the whoremongering, drunken clowns most of them were. However, the Greek heroes were probably no better, so it was not so far off the mark--Flashman

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>What's also curious is that Spotter time seems to be slower than Game time<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This seems to be a function of spotter quality and whether the spotter has an LOS to the target and/or a TRP. All of these variables affect how fast the spotter's timer runs. Apparently, each spotter has a base time for shooting at TRPs and another (apparently twice as long) for non-TRP missions. These base delay times are determined by the spotter's nationality and whether he's controlling guns, mortars, or rockets. The variables of spotter quality and LOS seem to affect how fast the spotter's timer runs with respect to game time. Quality doesn't have a very big effect, a matter of a few percent faster or slower than game time. LOS, however, has a HUGE effect. If the spotter doesn't have an LOS, his timer seems to run about 1/2 to 1/4 as fast as game time. Hope that answers your question. ------------------ -Bullethead It was a common custom at that time, in the more romantic females, to see their soldier husbands and sweethearts as Greek heroes, instead of the whoremongering, drunken clowns most of them were. However, the Greek heroes were probably no better, so it was not so far off the mark--Flashman

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>What I was commenting on was while you are in the orders phase and say, havent picked a target for the arty FO at all. You pick one and then see a delivery time of 1 min, then adjust it a bit OR change your strategy mid way through the orders phase a few times and the delay can and will increase to 2 mins (once a certain number of "1 minute targets" have been changed - usually 2 or 3).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This is what I was talking about. Changing targets more than once in the orders phase makes the imaginary FDC guys start their number crunching all over, thus increasing the firing delay over what it was for the 1st target you picked and then abandoned. Again, I don't like this. Especially when you incur the extra delay because you shifted your point of aim by 10-20m from the 1st place you put it this turn. There shouldn't be any effect for that at all because the FO wouldn't even bother to report such a minor shift. He couldn't control it that finely anyway. On this subject, IMHO the "lime green line radius" for adjusting the MPI of an on-going fire mission is way too small. You can only move the MPI 40m or so and have it count as an adjustment--any further and you have to start over. Again, this is too small. The adjustment radius should be 100m at least, maybe up to 200m. This is because, due to the impact pattern and kill radius of the all the rounds landing, shifts less than this make no real difference in where lethal fragments are flying. ------------------ -Bullethead It was a common custom at that time, in the more romantic females, to see their soldier husbands and sweethearts as Greek heroes, instead of the whoremongering, drunken clowns most of them were. However, the Greek heroes were probably no better, so it was not so far off the mark--Flashman

TeAcH said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Was this done intentionally in game to penalize the player for being indecisive about where he wants the arty delivered?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes it was. This got brought up back in beta demo days. IIRC, at that time Charlse said that the act of clicking on a target for the spotter unit is the same as him sending a radio message to the FDC, telling them what numbers they need to crunch. So if you change targets, they have to start over. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>If so, I guess I can live with that but I thought it was an orders phase. Why not penalize other units with a firing delay then if you bounce between several targets. Whats the rationale?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well, according to Charlse's explanation above, direct fire units don't need to crunch numbers so don't suffer the penalty. Personally, I disagree with this feature. Sure, there's a work-around using the LOS tool as Hunter mentions. But if you can avoid the problem this way, then why have the problem at all? ------------------ -Bullethead It was a common custom at that time, in the more romantic females, to see their soldier husbands and sweethearts as Greek heroes, instead of the whoremongering, drunken clowns most of them were. However, the Greek heroes were probably no better, so it was not so far off the mark--Flashman

I can handle the ambient music myself. But I must admit I was rather disappointed not to find piper team units in the Brit OOB when I opened the editor. I was just SURE BTS would have put them in as an Easter Egg I think it would be cool to have little piper dudes out there. Maybe give them a morale bonus to surrounding units like some times of leaders do ------------------ -Bullethead It was a common custom at that time, in the more romantic females, to see their soldier husbands and sweethearts as Greek heroes, instead of the whoremongering, drunken clowns most of them were. However, the Greek heroes were probably no better, so it was not so far off the mark--Flashman

Kverdon said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>It is mentioned in the manual that a Company Commander can call for off board arty if the Spotter for that Arty is eliminated. Is this correct? If so, then how do you do it?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Do you have a page number? I don't recall seeing this. I do recall that in the course of general discussions, it's been mentioned on this board a few times that in real life, company commanders often had a radio in touch with the arty instead of having a real FO attached to the company. And thus, the CM spotter units represent both actual FOs and company officers calling fire. ------------------ -Bullethead It was a common custom at that time, in the more romantic females, to see their soldier husbands and sweethearts as Greek heroes, instead of the whoremongering, drunken clowns most of them were. However, the Greek heroes were probably no better, so it was not so far off the mark--Flashman

Ash said (without stuttering over "klatu feratta whatever") <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>That would probably happen in "real life" and I know its been documented before.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> More than a few firemen have died from panicking and running further into the fire instead of out of the building. ------------------ -Bullethead It was a common custom at that time, in the more romantic females, to see their soldier husbands and sweethearts as Greek heroes, instead of the whoremongering, drunken clowns most of them were. However, the Greek heroes were probably no better, so it was not so far off the mark--Flashman

Personally, I usually have a bagpipes CD running while I play CM, regardless of where my troops came from. The instrument is classified as a weapon and the music was especially written to inspire your troops and terrify the enemy. And my guys usually need all the help they can get ------------------ -Bullethead It was a common custom at that time, in the more romantic females, to see their soldier husbands and sweethearts as Greek heroes, instead of the whoremongering, drunken clowns most of them were. However, the Greek heroes were probably no better, so it was not so far off the mark--Flashman

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I thought that was Elizabeth Hurley (saints all look the same in mid-wargasm)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> No, it has to be St. Barbara. She's the saint of artillerymen, whores, and other things that go BANG in the night ------------------ -Bullethead It was a common custom at that time, in the more romantic females, to see their soldier husbands and sweethearts as Greek heroes, instead of the whoremongering, drunken clowns most of them were. However, the Greek heroes were probably no better, so it was not so far off the mark--Flashman

Mark IV said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Finally the most beautiful display of CENSOREDmm pyrotechnics have begun to bloom within the British ranks. Treebursts, massive craters, and cries of "the bahstids!" are SO sweet. I have never been quite so fond of artillery as I am at this moment. Once in a great while, I am reminded that the artillery deserves their RVs and lawn chairs, and can truly be a magic wand of fireballs (love that phrase).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This is called an "epiphany". In this type of situation, the usual manifestation seems to be a vision of St. Barbara seen hovering above the shellbursts. She is usually described as in the throes of a massive wargasm, caused by straddling a red-hot 155mm gun tube, and uttering the following between pants and gasps of ecstacy: "Grovel, pitiful cannonfodder. Suck the tit of Mother Earth and pray I find you too insignificant to utterly destroy." So, did you see this vision? If so, then you are truly blessed ------------------ -Bullethead It was a common custom at that time, in the more romantic females, to see their soldier husbands and sweethearts as Greek heroes, instead of the whoremongering, drunken clowns most of them were. However, the Greek heroes were probably no better, so it was not so far off the mark--Flashman

Fo6 said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>FYI guys, Bullethead is in charge of the arty rules for the CMMC and he's just published a 50+ pg draft of them for review by the GMs.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yeah, but like 10 pages of that is intro text material included on the assumption that most folks have no idea what all arty can do and what has to be done to make that possible. Plus all the rest is written in "rules language" so uses way more words than normal conversation in order to close potential loopholes. But don't blame this all on me. Jon Sowden (aka JonS) is responsible for at least 1/2 of it all. This has been a collaborative effort from the beginning. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I just hope we can implement these rules because they'll certainly add to the realism of the whole campaign.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Naturally, I think all these rules are the minimum necessary for any realistic treatment of arty at the operational scale. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I can only imagine how much time you've spent working them up.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Jon and I started working on this back in January, each of us adding a bit and then sending it to the other for tweaking. We got up to Rev 31 before Jon got activated for deployment to East Timor a couple weeks ago. So these rules have circled the globe at least 15 times. They are truly, as Jon used to say, "Ubique". ------------------ -Bullethead It was a common custom at that time, in the more romantic females, to see their soldier husbands and sweethearts as Greek heroes, instead of the whoremongering, drunken clowns most of them were. However, the Greek heroes were probably no better, so it was not so far off the mark--Flashman