aka_tom_w

its still out there and its still free: from http://www.gamespot.co.uk/stories/interviews/0,2160,2089592,00.html "Combat Mission: Barbarossa To Berlin Q&A We spoke with Big Time Software president, Charles Moylan, to get all the latest details on the upcoming sequel to the original Combat Mission. Page 1 of 5 next page» When Big Time Software released Combat Mission: Beyond Overlord last year, it became one of the most critically acclaimed games in recent years, garnering a lengthy string of glowing reviews and awards. Many feel that this tactical simulation of late World War II combat in Western Europe has single-handedly redefined wargaming's potential. Unlike most traditional wargames, Combat Mission presents battles in 3D, and it features an intuitive interface and an innovative turn-based/real-time game design. During each turn, you take as much time as you like studying the battlefield and issuing commands to your units during an orders phase. After that, the actions of both sides' troops play out simultaneously in real time during a one-minute action phase. The alternation between careful deliberation and dramatic action gives the game a unique pace, and the meticulous attention to historical detail allows for great realism and tactical subtlety. Now Big Time Software is hard at work on Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin . As in Combat Mission: Beyond Overlord, the focus will be on company- and battalion-sized battles, with units representing squads, weapons teams, and individual vehicles and field guns. This time, though, the game will center on the brutal fighting between the Axis and Soviet forces on the Eastern Front. We recently got to talk with Charles Moylan, President of Big Time Software and lead engineer and co-designer of Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin. GameSpot: What do you feel has been the key to Combat Mission's success, and how do you hope to repeat or build on that success with Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin? Charles Moylan: It's mainly that we, as gamers, made a game that we really wanted to play, rather than a generic 'corporate' game that would (in theory) sell to a mass market. What that means is that we did a lot of research, got the military history right, combined that with a cool 3D graphics engine and novel hybrid real-time/turn-based control system, never cutting corners. It took us a long time to build Combat Mission, and I doubt that we would have been allowed to take so much time crafting the game if we were not independent. But since we are, we had that freedom, and I think it was a good decision. We'll take the same approach with Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin. That's why we don't have a firm ship date: we won't ship the game until we're satisfied that it's truly complete. Combat Mission gamers are on our message board right now making suggestions, helping out with research, and contributing ideas. And we listen to them. next page» Copyright © 2002 CNET Networks, Inc. All rights reserved. GameSpot and GameSpot logo are registered service marks of CNET Networks,Inc."

more news here: MGO has just posted an exclusive developers diary for Combat Mission Barbarossa to Berlin. It gives a great insight into the making of various aspects of the latest CM. You can find the article here Developers Diary For Combat Mission Barbarossa to Berlin: http://www.militarygameronline.com/insidemgo/modules.php?name=Sections&sop=viewarticle&artid=30 [ May 08, 2002, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

"This whole concept is based on IronMan rules, and so the commander shouldnt be able to use any 3D map (exept the view from his command post), because that would allow "flying" and memorizing terrain features to use later when ordering units in level 1 view." The REALLY REALLY tricky part about all this is "What does the Player actually see??" As it is now the CMBO game is played on a 3D map in total 3D space and both players see all things in "God view" 3D technicolor, both while plotting the move and while the movie plays back. OK for CM II lets assume for the moment they will stick with the same format (i.e. the plot orders phase and then the 1 minute movie combat resolution phase, everyone here seems mostly comfortable with that format) then how do you make the relationship between the 2D road map you get to see when you are setting up before the battle and the FULL blown 3D environment map you see in the movie where your units are fighting and moving? For relative spotting and terrain FOW and to eliminate the concerns with regard to the "borg Like" behaviour of units, it would seem some things (intel & info ) must be kept from the player, and this is either control of units or information about the map and the battle and whats actually happening out there. (I think I have said that a few times). One way to do this is with the 2D road map, BUT we must be very careful not to suggest we are trying to make this like another board game like Squad Leader, (Clearly, BTS would never let that happen ) NO, what we want is EXACTLY the opposite with Relative Spotting, realistic immersion in the battlefield experience and terrain Fog Of War. (OK, I would hope we would all want it to be FUN to play as well, however from this thread we can see there are many many different ideas of what "Fun to Play" means!) I think we have to be careful here because when this has come up in the past many folks have loudly stated they did not want to end up playing a game called "Recon Mission", something to the effect... "HEY! this is not Recon Mission, its Combat Mission!" I for one would like to see MUCH more emphasis on Recon prior to the battle, this would mostly be from for solitar play against the AI on defense as the AI i patient and won't care how long your recon missions take. So back to the point, the question then becomes what does the Player see in the 1 minute movie play back (from WHAT perspective) and what does the Player see during the orders plotting phase. Franco's list of IronMan True Combat rules suggests a quideline for what the player sees during the orders phase, but what about the Movie playback phase and what about how to include the 2D road map? Surely I think we can all agree we don't want to see combat resolution during the one minute movie play out with ugly icons on a flat ugly 2d road map! -tom w [ May 08, 2002, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

OK lets revisit IronMan Rules Franko also independantly codified these rules into this document. (see below) (I am somewhat ashamed to admit I have never had the self discpline to adhere strictly to these rules in a CMBO game BUT if there was an OPTION to Play IronMan FOW with Relative spotting I think it would be fun for the hard core grogs out there ) found here: http://home.arcor.de/tcmhq/Nifranko.htm FRANKO'S TRUE COMBAT RULES 1. INTRODUCTION. The following rules are designed to maximize the realism and immersion of single-player play. Generally speaking, as the human player, you are not allowed to do use the tools of the game interface for the purpose of doing anything your troops could not do in real life. All rules set forth below must be construed according to that principle. 2. SELECTING UNITS. Only use the "+" or "-" keys to move from friendly unit to friendly unit. Then, use the "tab" key. You can then only rotate in place to scan the surrounding terrain (imagine you are where the unit is, and that you can only see what THAT unit can see..its pretty simple). If there is friendly unit within the line of sight (LOS) of the unit you have currently selected, you do not have to use the + and - keys. Instead, you can simply point and click on that target unit, THEN hit the tab key. Any other way of accessing an enemy unit is forbidden. 3. VIEWING YOUR SURROUNDINGS. A. PANNING. After accessing the unit and hitting the tab key(which orients the view of the unit forward), you can only "look around" by using the pivot keys (1,3,7,9) on the keypad. In other words, you can pan 360 (your guys can turn around and look where they are). B. BUILDINGS: If your units are in a building or he unit icon (such as vehicle), blocks your view, you can use the "8" key to click ahead only such distance which is necessary to clear the sprite. C. ELEVATED VIEWS. Once turns begin (after setup), you may use only the lowest-level view ("1" on the keyboard), unless the following apply: 1. If your unit occupies are a two-level building, you may use View 2 ("2" on the keyboard") from the units location; and 2. If you are on the top floor of a church, you can use View 2 or View 3, whichever you prefer Note: The Setup procedure may offer you further viewing options. See Rule __, Below. 4. ENEMY UNITS. You may not, under any circumstances, "click on" or "select" an enemy unit. Use the "N" key to select targets. 5. ZOOM KEYS. You may not use the "zoon key" (the brackets), unless the following exceptions apply: A. You may use up to Zoom 2x if you're unit you are "looking from" is platoon leader or above. B. Your unit may use up to Zoom 4x if it has optics (e.g, an artillery observer, an AT gun, a tank). If you really want to be anal, buttoned up tanks or tanks that suffered casualties can only use up to zoom 4x in the direction of their turret facing, because, that's where the gunners optics are facing! American tanks may not be able to zoom at all..we can debate that one later. C. During Setup, under specified conditions (see below) 6. WEATHER. You must always have weather and fog set to "full" 7. SPECIAL SETUP RULES. The following setup rules apply depending on whether you are the attacker, defender, or if the battle is a meeting engagement. A. Attacker: During setup you may use View Level 7 ("7" on the keyboard)to aid in setup, in addition to the views you are permitted in Rules 1, 2, or 3, above. This "attacker's map" rule represents the "map" your troop commander would use to help prepare your troops for the assault. Whether such a map is available should be specified in your briefing by the designer. B. Defender: During setup you can use the map rule, above, if your signal corps has its act together. In addition, you can freely move about the map in level 1, or view level 2 (or 3, if a church) if that part of the map your viewing from is a multi-level building C. Meeting Engagements. Both sides may only view using the Attacker's map rule, or from any spot in their setup zone (only). Again, if a spot in their setup zonehas a church or building, adjust accordingly. D. OPTIONAL RULE: During setup you may print out a map (by taking a screen shot and printing the .bmp file) for use during the battle. This map should be at the minimum View Level 7. 8. GAME SETTINGS. Use only "Realistic" Sized units. Always have "full terrain" on. Turn unit bases and detailed armored hits "off". Generally speaking, use only those feature that the troops could use. Needless to say, Fog of War is ALWAYS set to FULL! Always interested in your input. Frank M. Radoslovich [ May 08, 2002, 02:55 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

Cover your approach to the tanks with as much smoke as possible, preferably from a Mortar Spotter...81m or 4.2" or even 105mm. Also button-up the tanks. Then rush your Platoons in close, make sure to keep all squads in command of their HQ unit. Hopefully you have either Panzerfausts, Rifle Grenades, or Demo charges...they will help greatly, but just grenades and ballz of steel can also kill a tank. Platoon's whose HQ has combat and morale bonuses are best for close-assaulting tanks. I've heard that your squad will be *more* likely to use a 'Faust/Rifle Grenade/Demo charge if they *are not* manually targeted on the tank....they are more likely to use it on their own if you leave them to do it themselves. So far this has worked for me.</font>

Kallimakhos, you speak ALOT about the "2D" map... may I suggest you re-read your post and edit it to include suggestions as to how and when the 2D map may "relate" or "turn into" the 3D map we all know and love. What is the relationship between your 2D map and the 3D map we see in the movie? Are you suggesting a 'shrouded' area of grey like in Warcraft for example? If so you should be prepared for major dissent and dissagreement on that suggestion. I highly doubt BTS would ever consent to the implentation of any form or shroud of grey unknown map area. BUT some form of RECON "could" transform a 2D "road map" into the detailed 3D map we see in CMBO.. somehow ...the trick is how... as always the Devil is in the details! great post none the less... -tom w

Thanks for posting Kallimakhos Thanks also for taking the time to read all the previous posts I really liked this point: "The solution could be called simply Iron man Immersion (bit easier than the IMSRS-FOW ) which naturally should be optional "ultimate FOW", meant only for the groggiest and the most anal gamers (which could very likely make the majority! ). This is a solution to most if not all major conserns raised before, not perfect but closest I can concieve." I agree, of course it should be optional something like FOW for REAL men of course suggesting that playing with any "less" FOW would be for "girlymen" (use thick Germanic accent for optimal effect re: Saturday night live) That was one helluva of lengthy post on relative spotting. Of course it all sounds mostly good and I agree with almost all of it -tom w [ May 07, 2002, 11:03 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

More like Sturgis in South Dakota in mid August when all the bikers arrive. have you ever seen that its CRAZY! -tom w [ May 07, 2002, 09:50 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

any further ideas? Well the thread has now totally dropped off the rader screen..... it may be gone but it is not forgotten -tom w

That is a VERY good point the appropriate type of round is always asssumed to be loaded in the breach in CMBO (except for smoke :confused: rounds of course). and I agree completely "In CM style quick draw fights this would be the difference between life and death in many cases." I'm not sure we can expect to see much change in that in CMBB? oh well -tom w [ May 07, 2002, 09:25 AM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

Again NO.. "yes, but a knocked out tank dose block your LOS, dose it not?" only if there the tank is burning and there is smoke coming from it, then the smoke blocks the LOS, the actual tank itself STILL does not block LOF and you can shoot right through it as though it was not there (With an area target order for instance directly through the KO'd Tank) seriously -tom w [ May 06, 2002, 12:40 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

His quote below in reply to a thread about accuracy and the postes that proceeded this were discussing some long range accuracy tested being conducted in CMBO. See, the now locked, thread: " Accuracy of main battle tanks" Author Topic: Accuracy of main battle tanks Madmatt Administrator Member # 332 posted May 06, 2002 09:41 AM By the way, all the testing you are doing regarding accuracy and long range engagments in CMBO will have little bearing in CMBB since that is one element that has been reworked and tweaked. Madmatt

i did not know that. so, active vehicles do not provide cover? but they block LOS, dont they?</font>

TSword, interesting post, I agree with your conclusions "That WILL be the first test to do in CMBB a JS-2 and a Tiger I at 1500 m vs. each other one in the open the other Hulldown, if there is a long ding dong shootout-battle, the thing will land in the basket.." Good point! For CMBB this information is VERY relevant. long range(1000- 1500+) accuracy for the 88 in CMBO has been supect in the past... In CMBB long range stand of duals should be modeled much better and hopefully optics and long range accuracy will be granted to those tanks and guns (e.g.Tiger 88 mm) that had a deserved reputation for long range first shot accuracy. if you are interested in modeling realistic tactics and strategy then the game MUST account for long range, first shot kills from tanks and guns that are almost completely unseen by the opposing force. -tom w

have these beauties been released? That Winter Tiger is a REALLY nice job when and where can we get those? Nice job on the subdued version TOO! -tom w

very impressive! -tom w

" One of the BIGGEST HQ influences on the battle that I have found is pairing Zook/Schrek/PIAT teams with a +1 or +2 combat HQ. The difference is night and day between them and non bonus HQs or out of C and C teams. This does not relate to a firepower boost as such. But it means these AT teams will be much more likely to hit what the shoot at even at longer ranges." I would say this info is such a big deal (Like it was my secret weapon) it should immediately be classified Top Secret-Eyes Only and censored from this board. AT assets under command of a +2 combat bonus HQ are truely inspired and their accuracy goes up noticably, and when it comes to KILLING tanks this is a BIG deal. HUSH! it should be kept quiet! -tom w (all in good fun) [ May 03, 2002, 03:46 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

OK now I'm curious.. what is a "two-bonus HQ" ? do you mean +2 on all the bonuses or any 2 bonus modifiers? I have never heard of this and am curious. thanks for bringing it up Ace Pilot -tom w

They are somewhat resilient for sure. Since C&C is modeled and keeping those other 3 squads in command is important to the Player it stands to reason that the HQ unit should be the last to break and run. They are tough to take out, but I don't think they are too tough. Using an HQ unit is invaluable if a squad tries to close assualt a tank for instance, without the HQ in command radius (close by) that sqaud is almost sure to fail. I think these platoon HQ's are modeled with a little extra "staying power" to show they are supposed to be the smarter, "well trained officer corp" I'm guessing. I do not think they are over modeled, and I think trying to kill all the opposing enemy HQ units is a VERY good idea because other opposing units (squads and the like) not in command radius are MUCH slower to respond to the orders of the Player and break much easier. -tom w [ May 02, 2002, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

not only do you need the ambush marker setup, do you not, also have to target that ambush marker with the units you want to fire at it when the enemy units approach? -tom w

Yep, right. I forgotten to mention this. This is right. A higher ROF results in a faster overheated gun, this reduces the muzzel velocity and has direct negative effect on the accuracy. Here a quote from the book PzKpfw IV by Spielberger/Doyle/Jentz : What can we learn from this? a) I was wrong in my earlier post. Tanks die fast when they are hit. The normal distance for real tank battles is above 1000m, at least in the later war. The normal CM battle distance is - even on big maps - usualy below 1000m. I also remember a report about the 7.5cm PAK - the normal attack range was the biggest possible distance to the target. c) The German guns were very accurate. The chance to hit is about 33-50% on 1200 - 1600 meters - in real battle conditions. Now I checked this in CM with a stationary PzIV and a stationary Sherman on 1432 meters, optimum possible targeting circumstances, the Sherman shows his side. The chance to hit is shown as : 22% for a regular crew 24% for a veteran crew 28% for a crack crew 33% for an elite crew So the CM hit probability is even in best circumstances with the best crew on the lower end of the possible results, compared to the real war results.</font>

Olle is correct (from the read-me) "* Pillboxes: - Acquire targets a bit faster than other guns (it's assumed that they've pre-ranged to landmarks)." The TRP will do what you ask for, BUT the ambush marker "should" do it TOO. if a stationary pillbox aquires targets faster because it is pre-ranged, it does not seem unreasonable that a stationary tank that sets an ambush marker (maybe JUST in the set-up phase) should be granted some form of targeting bonus based on walking to the ambush area and pre-ranging the distance. To do this in the middle of combat however does perhaps seem unreasonable. -tom w

thats about right, it has been my experience that the jammed MG is just a fact of life and you should see at least one or two jams every game. NO big deal unless it happens at a VERY bad time, give it a turn or two, three turns at the most, and your guys will be back in action! -tom w

First Off Welcome to CMBO! "P.S. Hey I'm only in 8th grade" No ****??? :eek: You write better than most college students I see with High School diploma's! Don't worry about the odd flame or bad comment in your direction! Keep learning about CBMO. Hopefully it will arrive soon and then you can join our collective addiction -tom w [ May 01, 2002, 10:26 AM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

Again Sorry this may be wildly off topic but if you look closely at this list you can see where they have made as Least 2 improvements in targeting accuracy: this is from the read-me from the latest patch v1.12 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * v1.12 2/6/2001 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Tanks use better hull-rotation logic. * Gun accuracy is somewhat higher at long range. * Gunnery accuracy equations modified slightly to permit greater accuracy at point-blank ranges. Ok ok -tom w [ April 30, 2002, 11:37 AM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]