Catacol Highlander Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Winter now, and the German army is refitting and moving to jump off points for next spring. However one interesting development: it looks as though Marc is about to invade Iraq... now I entered this game with an economic eye, and Iraq has 4 lovely oil squares. If he carries this out it will increase my own interest in Turkey - really the only real route I can use to get close to him in the Middle East. We shall see - for now my air assault on the UK wil happen as soon as the weather turns and I am now ready to start my mopping up operations to the east of Moscow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abukede Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Not much going on. Just preparing for Al's next assault and my next offensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catacol Highlander Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 December 1942 and I dont have my graphics programme on this laptop so no pics I'm afraid. In the North Sea I have decided it is time to withdraw my U boats. I am still damn well stuck on level 1 tech, and it is annoying me now so I will wait until my fortune changes and I can get them out with decent punching power. Marc has hemmed one in in a Fjord, so it looks as though I will lose my first one... :-( In France the Luftwaffe is now in place in force and waiting for good weather. In Russia my forces to the West of Stalingrad are only 2 hexes from Marc's defences and awaiting more power and better weather. Near Leningrad very quiet... Outside of Moscow all forces are now fully reinforced, and are beginning to push out to the east of the capital. While my main thrust will be at Stalingrad I also want to clear the Soviets out of some towns and cities to the east of Moscow so that I create a buffer zone of sorts and an early warning system of any sneaky counter attack. Got my first units close to Yugoslavia in preparation for its seizure and have now decided to increase the size of the Italian Army. Marc has just seized Tunisia with the US Army, and an invasion of Italy must be a possibility so time to make proper preparations. All in all feeling pretty good. Still got my eye on Turkey but will have to wait a little while to do anything about it. Actually my head is struggling to keep to my priorities in general - there is so much I want to try and do now, but I musnt take my eye off the ball yet - Russia is still a major threat if I leave her to recover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSPC37730 Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Graphics guys, graphics... Gotta have the illustrated version of the story here. Thanks! I'm curious to see how it will all turn out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catacol Highlander Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 I promise some comprehensive graphics images for you on Monday - my laptop here on holiday is great but I forgot to load my graphics stuff onto it and dont have time to fiddle with any online substitutes. Sorry - I know it must be frustrating. Check again late Monday or early Tuesday and I will make clear everything that is going on. In words: It is now Jan 1943 and the German armed forces are preparing for operations in 1943. I am getting ready for any allied attack in Italy or France, and have units closing in on Stalingrad including a Romanian army group camped 2 hexes from Marc's lines. I'll show you them on monday - we wont have quite got to summer by then so not much will change. My one success this turn was to destroy a retreating soviet AT unit NE of Moscow - I am sending one battlegroup in this direction just to see if there is any chance I could cut off the arctic convoys at source by seizing Archangel... U boats now in harbour, and in France the Luftwaffe are getting ready to test the mettle of the RAF and USAF. MPPS now nearly over 1100 per turn. It is a lot and I am enjoying it. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catacol Highlander Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Heading home from Madeira today - will post when I get back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Seems like that no molotov-pact penalty seriously shifted balance in this AAR. Russia is too weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyazinth von Strachwitz Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Agreed. Unless there are no changes, that will be the standard path. Apart from that: as we have seen in the AAR, a german conquest of the Ukraine means an economic catastrophe for the Allies.. the longer Germany outproduces the Allies, the higher the probability of a german victory will be. A potential solution can be to reduce the amount of mines in that area. In reality the russians redeployed their industry around Sverdlosk, and they also do that in the game.. but the fact that the industry in no longer in the Ukraine is not modeled.. all of these mines produce for the Wehrmacht. This makes the Ukraine a must-have target. Controlling this area gives you around 900 MPP per turn in late 1941, and this is enough to maintain Fortress Europe forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abukede Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Hyazinth, The game is not over yet. I still have hope. The Allies and axis are almost even for income at the moment. The Western allies have been a challenge to get rolling this game. Tech has lagged... though thankfully that has begun to change. I don't know if it will be in time yet. I made a few early mistakes and they are coming back to haunt me. In addition, a great many things were adjusted prior to the campagn being released... so I would caution reading too much into how our match has gone. The great thing about this game is that no two games are alike... there is a lot that can happen differently from one game to another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Hyazinth, The game is not over yet. I still have hope. The Allies and axis are almost even for income at the moment. The Western allies have been a challenge to get rolling this game. Tech has lagged... though thankfully that has begun to change. I don't know if it will be in time yet. I made a few early mistakes and they are coming back to haunt me. In addition, a great many things were adjusted prior to the campagn being released... so I would caution reading too much into how our match has gone. The great thing about this game is that no two games are alike... there is a lot that can happen differently from one game to another. Well the game is not only about MMP it's also a game of position. Even income means axis advantage as the allies are split in three majors with tech advances not combined. I'm sticking my chin out a bit here as the allies might win the game but it seems to me that Russia is too weak. It might be the flaw of no penalty for disregarding the molotov-pact but Germany has advance too far cosidering it was just a limited offensive in the south to begin with. When Germany did not use the wide space to overwhelm inferior red army formations the russians should have been able to contain barbarossa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abukede Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Kuniworth, I believe I made an error in judgement in not hitting Al in the north when he hit in the South. I could have focused on slowing him in the South and hammering him into the Baltic States and Poland requiring him to readjust. I had no counter to his airpower at the time and as a result it hurt me significantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 In terms of a penalty for not honoring the Molotov pact the USSR does swing a bit towards the Allies and in doing so this will increase its per turn MPP as mobilization is tied into the collection formulas and it may put pressure on Germany to prepare for Barbarossa a bit earlier should the USSR mobilize toward war quicker than expected. Granted the swing might not be enough, we can look into it further, and Marc is correct that there were quite a few last minute changes implemented to help balance the game prior to release that were implemented after the AAR game began and these will be in play for anyone with the v1.02 patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Hubert while you're at it, look into SC3 a bit further and hook me up as ww2 details consultant. I will not charge a penny and be glad to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ev Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 ...This makes the Ukraine a must-have target. Controlling this area gives you around 900 MPP per turn in late 1941, and this is enough to maintain Fortress Europe forever. Germany was holding much more than just the Ukraine. For startes he had Spain, France, Belgium, Holland, Luxemburg, all of Poland, the Baltic States and Belorusia, and I think Germany also had Denmark and Norway, plus the Ukraine, Rostov, and soon after he also got the Caucasuss region with oilfields). 900MPP for such a huge region seems reasonable. The Ukraine was actually a huge and very reach country in natural resources. It also was very reach in agricultural resources which were a most if Germany was going to avoid the food problems that lead to defeat in WWI. I would like to play the game a bit before making my own call on this matter, but judging from the AAR, I am not so sure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lhughes41 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 I thought there was some no pact penalty like great Soviet mobilization... There should also be a reduction in resources for the Axis as the Soviets were shipping them quite a bit as part of the deal.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSPC37730 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Attacking Russia (ok the Soviet Union) early carries it's own penalties for the Axis, namely, there is less time & fewer turns of MPP income to build up units prior to the attack. There's also a need to rush units across Europe from France. No matter what you do, you go in with a smaller force. Further, this takes alot of pressure off the Brits - case in point in this AAR since there was never much action in North Africa & now it's completely in Allied hands. Yugoslavia lingered for quite some time as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Hubert while you're at it, look into SC3 a bit further and hook me up as ww2 details consultant. I will not charge a penny and be glad to help. Sounds good and I just hope you can be patient with our timeline and don't get banned again in the meantime Seriously though, thanks for the generous offer and we might just have to take you up on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 I should mention that there was a small bug for when this AAR began that should have seen the US join a bit quicker and with more assets should the Axis player have taken control of Spain and especially Gibraltar and this is likely part of the problem Marc mentions in having the Allies come up to speed in his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Sounds good and I just hope you can be patient with our timeline and don't get banned again in the meantime LOL! What's the timeline? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ev Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Franco, the Spanish dictator during WWII was a Fascist ally of Hitler and Musolini. In fact, German forces fought in support of Franco's troops during the Spanish Civil War. My guess is that, if Hitler should have invaded Spain it would have created an awkward political situation for him and his Nazi party. I tried to come up with a list: 1(a) First, it should lower Germany's National Morale. German soldiers fought and died in support of Franco. Now they would be asked to fight against the very same army and regime they formerly supported. 1( Germany would be attacking an ally and fellow fascist regime. This should be hard to sell at home. Again, a hit to National Morale. 2. If Itally, Hungary and Rumania are still neutral, they would take special note of Hitler's attack against Franco. Their regimes were betting on their common fascist ideologies plus their anti-soviet stand as basis for common ground with Hitler's Germany. An attack against Franco's Spain would undermine Germany's relations with these countries. 3. If Itally, Hungary and Rumanio have joined the Axis, their National Morale should suffer when Germany invades a fellow Fascist regime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abukede Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Okay... So it's march and it's mud and the Russian's went on the offensive... well a limited offensive East of Stalingrad and hammered the Romanian army group advancing toward the city. I nailed an army and a corp... as well as assualted a couple of other units. Up north I hit an exposed German army and brought him down to 5 strength. Spring is coming and freedom of movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyazinth von Strachwitz Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Germany was holding much more than just the Ukraine. For startes he had Spain, France, Belgium, Holland, Luxemburg, all of Poland, the Baltic States and Belorusia, and I think Germany also had Denmark and Norway, plus the Ukraine, Rostov, and soon after he also got the Caucasuss region with oilfields). 900MPP for such a huge region seems reasonable. The Ukraine was actually a huge and very reach country in natural resources. It also was very reach in agricultural resources which were a most if Germany was going to avoid the food problems that lead to defeat in WWI. I would like to play the game a bit before making my own call on this matter, but judging from the AAR, I am not so sure... ev, I do basically agree with what you say. Maybe I didn`t point out exactly what I wanted to say. In reality Germany occupied and controlled a lot of countries and benefitted a lot from it. Tanks from the Czechs, Guns and Motors from the French, precious metals from Norway.. the list ist endless. My point is: please count the mines and production cities in the Donezk Bassin.. and you will find that this area way overrepresented. Due to these circumstances the Ukraine is a must-have, the Axis cannot win without it. Maybe they loose even after having it, but they will loose for sure if they don`t have it. In reality the lack of oil wells was a severe problems for Germany, and after the destruction of Ploesti in August 43 Germany was economically defeated. The devastating result of Operation Bagration was (among other reasons) just possible because the german troops were almost immobile. 1.400 ME-262 were produced, but half of these didn`t fly a single minute because they didn`t have fuel. This fact is not represented in the game, because MPPs are MPPs. The daring move into the caucasus was mainly because the Wehrmacht needed oil, and they won`t find oil in the Ukraine. Maikop was taken, but it never produced a single gallon of oil before it was lost again. What I wanted to say it: Kuniworth is right about the position... and attacking Stalingrad an the Causasus brings Germany into an exposed position (you know the historic result). With the Ukraine being as precious as it is at the moment, Germany can allow to take it, be defensive on that frontier and focus elsewhere. If the Ukraine would be less precious, Germany would be forced to continue Fall Blau deep into the east.. My argument is simple: when there is something in the game that is easy to achieve and brings a lot of MPPs (like Norway), it will get some kind of "standard path" I don`t like standard paths, because it makes the game less variable. Should Germany be motivated to take the Ukraine? YES Should Germany benefit from taking the Ukraine? YES Should Germany be in a position to take the Ukraine and be happy with it? NO I might be wrong, but I simply feel there is too much industrial capacity in the Ukraine.. that is all I`m saying. Setting up a defensive positin around Rostov is way easier for Germany than moving their whole force to the endless plains that lead to Stalingrad. Take troops away from there and take Leningrad frees a lot of forces and establishes the link to Helsinki. When you do that, you have a large force whith almost no oppenent in the north.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catacol Highlander Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Been a lot of posts since I took off! I'm not going to add anything yet to the debate on balance - it is still too early for me to get a total feel, but I would only suggest that to react too much to one AAR and one game is possibly not the way to go. Currently the axis have their noses in front, but let's wait and see how it ends. If the axis are to win then they need mpps and territory - if you make these unattainable then the axis will stand no chance. Let's wait and see... Back to the battle in hand: Marc has hit me nicely near Stalingrad, and his timing is spot on. I was one turn away from being able to fast move stuff into Morozovsk by operational movement, but now if the town falls it will put me back a fair bit. Here is another graphic: I have had to slow move stuff down to this area so the Romanians were rather out on their own, but that is very much about to change. Marc has a big decision to make now: he can push on and take Morozovsk and set me back a fair bit - - - but the question that I would suggest will be worrying him a bit is just how much I might have in behind this fairly thin Romanian screen and whether my counter punch will leave him badly mauled. I would absolutely love to be able to tell you that this was my plan all along - lure him out and then smash - but it would be a total lie. My graphic is deliberately vague (isnt this AAR a bit like a roller coaster thriller!!!?) but it just may be that I have got lucky and those Russian armoured units will suffer massive damage if they advance any further. We'll have to wait and see - am I bluffing? ... :-) Marc will certainly have to be careful though, because a big soviet battle defeat near Stalingrad this early in the season would probably spell the end of his defence of the city. One thing you can pick up on here is my second advance - it is much harder tactically to move the enemy around in this zone as I was able to do around Moscow, but I do have an avenue of advance from the NW and I have not ignored it. Forces are coming down from that way too, just to add a little to Marc's headache. Finally in my 1943 plan I said the Battle of Britain would start. It seems to me that it is a logical way to try and wear down some of Marc's UK mpps, and this pic shows that I have been fortunate in air tech which should leave me making hay in the skies for a while: This Luftflotte will strike soon, with the 2 tac bombers and 4 fighters hopefully keeping the RAF in real trouble for a while. Elsewhere quiet. Around Leningrad I am just about getting a feel for how many units I have left after my formation of the Stalingrad battlegroup to plan an attack, but I am best to wait and see just how much Marc has himself sent to Stalingrad. He is now isolated in 2 pockets - if I see much more Soviet armour in Stalingrad than I can already spy I may well start an early assault on Leningrad. We shall see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSPC37730 Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Have to chime in with a number of others here - seems there are a tad too many "5's" out there for tech advances - especially for 1943. Don't know if the developers have already though of it, but, one thing I've come up with would be to "cap" the number of highest level units for the first turns after a tech breakthough was made. Limit the upgrades to 1-2 units. This could be gradually increased, simulating a ramp in production. Another idea that could work alongside this would be to adjust the size of the cap depending upon the level of the tech advance. For level 1 or 2, no big deal, a nominal cap & you can upgrade lots of units to those levels in fairly short order. For level 3, a more noticeable cap. At level 4 things would get pretty scarce. For level 5, units would be ultra-rare. Another thought is a temporary drop in organization/readiness to go along with an upgrade, to simulate getting the new weapons out, the training of the crews & unforseen problems. Think Panthers before Kursk. My apologies if somebody's come up with this stuff already... I'll be sure to drop my cheque for 2 cents in the mail later today... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abukede Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Okay... I launched 2 additional offensives on the East Front. Destroyed a German army in Central Russa and mauled a second Germany Amry in the Caucuses while retaking Grozny. I also cut supply and isolated 3 Germany armies around Baku. By Stalingrad the previous turn I launched a spoiling attack. I withdrew my forces into my fortifications around that city. I intend to let Al crash against those defenses. Up by Lenningrad Axis units are now 1 square away from my fortifications and defenses. The Russian army is now around 60 units... almost all offensive in nature. I have very few garrisons left. The western allies continue to get tech advances... but it's still a slow process. We are now into May 43. As to the research questions... I believe it has already been addressed prior to release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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