Map Making pointers to help us get started

[Abbott]

Map Making pointers to help us get started.

Would it be possible to get a few hints on do’s and don’ts of map-making for CMC?

For instance how do we align roads and rivers from grid to grid?

What should we watch for, mistakes we do not want to make?

I am looking for just enough information to start producing 2 X 2 maps while we wait for release.

(Please add your questions)

Thank you

[Sergei]

Is an exact alignment actually necessary (other than for perfectionists)? It shouldn't affect gameplay as I see it. But if you want to do it precisely, get yourself Mapping Mission and start working on a huge map, then export 2x2 pieces of it to the CMBB editor.

[Moon]

Yes, Mapping Mission is probably a very useful tool for this. Otherwise you could simply do rough alignments only...

There are no real restrictions I can think of. You should think the other way: as long as you make the map 2km by 2km, the CMC map editor allows you to "recreate" these maps and combine them into a large operational map.

Martin

[76mm]

Martin,

But is it correct that the 2x2 CMBB map should be divided into four 1x1 quadrants of a specific terrain type, so that it can be represented on the CMC level?

[Sergei]

Maybe you could even include Leland's Mapping Mission on the CMC disc? I believe he would give you his permission.

[Sergei]

Originally posted by 76mm:

Martin,

But is it correct that the 2x2 CMBB map should be divided into four 1x1 quadrants of a specific terrain type, so that it can be represented on the CMC level?

You should rather think of it as "how would these four quadrants of this map best be represented on an operational level?" The effects on unit movement and spotting being perhaps the most important. I trust the CMC editor is capable of providing good approximations for most situations.

[Abbott]

Originally posted by Sergei:

Maybe you could even include Leland's Mapping Mission on the CMC disc? I believe he would give you his permission.

Sergei after a couple of quick Googles I am unable to locate Mapping Mission. Could you please assist in my finding the utility?

[Sergei]

Google for CMMC2 (Combat Mission Meta Campaign), go to their forum and search there for Mapping Mission. It's there, somewhere, as an attachment. The latest version is 1.11 or something.

This is exactly why I'm suggesting to include it with the game

[Abbott]

Thank you.

[Elmo]

I found version 1.11 here:

http://www.cmmc2.org/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=814

[Moon]

Yes... and no.

Yes in the sense that indeed in the CMC editor, you will be working with 1km by 1km tiles mainly. You have a number of variations of each general "theme" (like "village", "forest" etc.) Buthe CMC editor does not work (only) with pre-made quadrants. You can place certain elements by hand freely, AND you can also combine different "tiles" (e.g. roads and village or roads and farmland etc.)

I guess it all also depends on how closely you want the CMC map to match the underlying CMBB maps. I am sure people will have their own preferences there, and some will want to see nearly every tree on the CMBB map in exactly the same shape, while others will be happy with varying the CMBB maps more.

When you look at this:

...you will notice that you can get a whole lot of variations in this way. The grid you see in this shot is the main 2km by 2km grid.

Martin

[General Bolt]

I just loaded Mapping Mission. WOW. Thanks Leland. The LOS tool is awesome. I'd bet it reduces map building time by a 90%.

A must for all CMBB/CMC map designers.

[Hunter]

There are some important things to keep in mind about the way things look in CMC.

Roads always go through the centre of quadrants edges (that is the 1/4 and 3/4 point on a 2k tile edge).

Rivers run along the edges of quadrants (so can be on the edge of a tile or in the middle, and will exit at an edge or 1/2 way point on the tile edge).

Each quadrant is given a designation like Pine Forest, Woods, Village, Farmland, Urban, Rough, Grassland, etc). The boundaries dont have to be clear though, since the CMC representation may only be approximate.

Villages will be in the middle of a quadrant typically. It is hard to convince the CMBB auto map generator to do this.

Height increments are in 50m. Hmmm, I think we assume the 'middle' height contour (2.5m) for all battles.

Hunter

[Hunter]

Notice how roads and rail fit together. Rail is to the East and South of roads. Road Bridges are central to quadrants, Rail Bridges are a little to the South or East.

[PzKpfwIII]

The big question from my perspective, though, is whether you have to use the same CM heights to represent the same elevation over sea level in each 2x2 map?

For example, say you have a 6 x 6 grid and there are 70metre elevation differences in total, but not in the same 2x2 map

Can you set heights using the 2.5m contour in the 1st map section as say

Level 1 = 160m

Level 2 = 162.5m

Level 3 = 165m

And then in the 2nd map section, set them as

Level 1 = 175m

Level 2 = 177.5m

Level 3 = 180 m

etc.?

[Renaud]

Yea, I don't think there's any hardcoded relation between what's on the CMC map and what's in the CMBB maps. None at all. It's up to the designer to have the CMC square give some useful indication of what's in the corresponding CMBB map.

Wonder what happens when some knucklehead shows land in CMC when the CMBB map is actually all water, hehe. Or high hill and it's actually a vast pit.

[Sergei]

Originally posted by Russophile:

The big question from my perspective, though, is whether you have to use the same CM heights to represent the same elevation over sea level in each 2x2 map?

The 2x2 maps don't have to have any common logic between them, AFAIU. You could have a dense mountain forest in one map, and a coastal city in the next one. You never get to see two 2x2 maps next to each other, so there is no need to worry about continuity.

[Hunter]

Originally posted by Russophile:

The big question from my perspective, though, is whether you have to use the same CM heights to represent the same elevation over sea level in each 2x2 map?

For example, say you have a 6 x 6 grid and there are 70metre elevation differences in total, but not in the same 2x2 map

Can you set heights using the 2.5m contour in the 1st map section as say

Level 1 = 160m

Level 2 = 162.5m

Level 3 = 165m

And then in the 2nd map section, set them as

Level 1 = 175m

Level 2 = 177.5m

Level 3 = 180 m

etc.?

Completely OK and expected that you would do this

[russellmz]

Originally posted by Moon:

When you look at this:

...you will notice that you can get a whole lot of variations in this way. The grid you see in this shot is the main 2km by 2km grid.

Martin

Moon, just to be clear. one red isometric square is a 2km x 2km map, made up of four 1km x 1km?

parabellum asked, suppose in the east, a german tank tried to cross the river(and the red line) from the 1x1 square with the three grain fields to the southeast and attack the infantry unit with the two vertical yellow bars. would the map used in cmbb be the eastmost red 2kmx2km tile?

here is his post with a better image/explanation.

[ October 18, 2005, 09:55 PM: Message edited by: russellmz ]

[Hunter]

Originally posted by russellmz:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Moon:

When you look at this:

...you will notice that you can get a whole lot of variations in this way. The grid you see in this shot is the main 2km by 2km grid.

Martin

Moon, just to be clear. one red isometric square is a 2km x 2km map, made up of four 1km x 1km?

parabellum asked suppose in the east, a german tank tried to cross the river(and the red line) from the 1x1 square with the three grain fields to the southeast and attack the infantry unit with the two vertical yellow bars. would the map used be the east red 2kmx2km tile?

here is his with a better image/explanation. </font>

[russellmz]

thank you for your super quick response!

[DBaron]

The way I understand is each quadrant in 2x2 tile square has a victory flag for it. So on the corresponding cmbb map, you can only have 1 victory flag now? Or can you still have several large and small victory flags?

[Hunter]

Each tile (cmbb map) has 4 victory flags on it, bang in the middle of the 4 quadrants. Hold the flag, hold the quadrant.

[David Chapuis]

Originally posted by Hunter:

Each tile (cmbb map) has 4 victory flags on it, bang in the middle of the 4 quadrants. Hold the flag, hold the quadrant.

So what happens if we make a CMBB map with flags in other spots than in the middle of each tile? Does CMC override the flag placement?

[L.Tankersley]

Hi, all! Wow, looks like I picked the right month to peek back in on the BFC forums if I wanted an ego stroke!

FYI, while you can certainly grab the latest Mapping Mission from the CMMC2 site, I have started hosting it on my own personal webspace as well. The link is:

http://home.comcast.net/~leland53/MappingMission111.zip

and the zip includes the program and the user's guide in Word format. Note that there's no actual page there; this is a link to directly download the file.

As far as distributing Mapping Mission with CMC ... in principle I've got no objection; if BFC or HTS or whomever wants to contact me about it, they can feel free. Give me a mention and maybe a complimentary copy of the game and I'd probably be happy. [Check out my l33t bargaining sk1llz!] If they don't want to do so, that's fine too -- up to them.