CC Question

[weapon2010]

 I cant remember, if your Pltn Co is killed, Does the Co Co have any influence(like it id in CM1) on the leaderless Pltn if it gets within a close proximity?

[LukeFF]

Yes

[Josey Wales]

Quote

Ditto - yes

 

[A Canadian Cat]

Not only that but the platoon Lt does not need to be a casualty he can just be too far away.

[Erwin]

The real question is whether the Co CO has a discernible influence.  The command influences are much more subtle than in CM1 and without doing statistical tests it's hard to detect any differences.

[LukeFF]

7 hours ago, Erwin said:

The real question is whether the Co CO has a discernible influence.  The command influences are much more subtle than in CM1 and without doing statistical tests it's hard to detect any differences.

Yes, he does, and for goodness sake, @Josey Wales himself recently wrote a lengthy topic about it that was discussed here. 

EDIT: geez, and he even answered your question in said topic! 

 

Edited November 19, 2017 by LukeFF

[Erwin]

My point was that one has to do multiple tests to create statistically relevant data that shows a difference.  When playing a game I don't see any observable difference when a unit is in C&C or if a Co CO has taken over command.   It's not like it was in CM1, where one could immediately tell that a unit was performing much better when in C2. 

In CM1 it was common to be able to bring up a +2 Company commander to take command of a cowering group of squads and they would quickly recover and it was easy to see that they were quickly fighting more effectively.

CM2 is much more subtle.  On the whole that is more realistic.  However, IIRC there have been RL situations where a very good commander could make a sudden and dramatic difference to his men.  CM2 does not feature that sort of dramatic effect.

[Josey Wales]

Multiple tests were done and the statement below is true;

"Being within a close C2 link (Close Visual/Voice) does provide resistance to the impact on Morale caused by Combat Shock - troops within C2 range of their HQ unit are less affected by the temporary impact of suppression upon Morale as they are less stressed by being shot at and the immediate impact of seeing team/squadmates killed & wounded is reduced."

If you're not seeing  any observable difference when a unit is in C&C or if a Co CO has taken over command then I can only think that you have not set up the parameters so as to be able to see it. The unit needs to be suffering from Combat Shock, i.e. it needs to be under incoming fire and then tests can be run to remove the close C2 link by moving the HQ unit out of range and/or back into range to see the difference. I have demonstrated this in the video accompanying the post 'The Relationship between Soft Factors, Morale & Fatigue'.

A change in the Morale state is observed when the close C2 link is removed/replaced if the current Morale state is being caused by Combat Shock (suppression). It is repeatable and therefore statistically relevant.

The Coy HQ and Bttn HQ perform the same role in this respect as a Plt HQ and can be used to step in should a Plt HQ become incapacitated.

If you're expecting to see an effect on a Morale state which has been arrived at by Combat Stress (the build up of casualties within the unit or by units closely associated organisationally) then I'm afraid that you won't see one regardless of if the unit in question is within C2 link or not and irrespective of if the C2 link is being provided by a Plt HQ, Coy HQ or Bttn HQ. This is because a Morale state which has been arrived at as a result of Combat Stress cannot be recovered from.

[Erwin]

Am probably not explaining myself properly.  Yes, the effect of being in C2 is statistically provable in CM2 if you run 100 similar tests.  My point is that the tiny % of improvement of performance having a unit inC2 is not observable/discernible in a single non-repeatable situation - like when you are playing the game (as opposed to running multiple similar experimental tests).  

Of course having C2 is better than not having C2.  However, using good tactics, having sufficient fire support etc. is much more important re winning an engagement than worrying about C2. 

[Josey Wales]

15 hours ago, Erwin said:

Am probably not explaining myself properly.  Yes, the effect of being in C2 is statistically provable in CM2 if you run 100 similar tests.  My point is that the tiny % of improvement of performance having a unit inC2 is not observable/discernible in a single non-repeatable situation - like when you are playing the game (as opposed to running multiple similar experimental tests).  

Of course having C2 is better than not having C2.  However, using good tactics, having sufficient fire support etc. is much more important re winning an engagement than worrying about C2. 

Ah ok I see what you're getting at. Well yes I have to agree that in game a +1 here or a -1 there makes no observable difference as factors such as the players ability, the cover available, the weapons you're being attacked by all have a more observable affect than say being in C2 or not.

What I would say (to borrow from Al Pacino in Any Given Sunday) is that at times, a game of CM is a game of inches and that the effects of the soft factors are real and are indeed affecting the situation even though it doesn't appear so and even though the affects are less noticeable than some of the other factors mentioned above. You're right, its subtle but that's what I like about it.

[A Canadian Cat]

16 minutes ago, Josey Wales said:

a game of CM is a game of inches and that the effects of the soft factors are real and are indeed affecting the situation even though it doesn't appear so and even though the affects are less noticeable than some of the other factors mentioned above

+1 to that. I would go further and say that good tactics *is* about paying attention to firepower, terrain, cover etc *and* command and control, leadership and morale.

[MOS:96B2P]

1 hour ago, IanL said:

+1 to that. I would go further and say that good tactics *is* about paying attention to firepower, terrain, cover etc *and* command and control, leadership and morale.

And +1 to that!!