Amizaur Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 The higher ground you are talking about decreases the angle of sloped armor by mere few degrees. Even 60mm of armor if sloped at more than 60deg (from vertical) is simply impenetrable for M10. This part of Tiger's armor is sloped at 80 degrees ! so decreasing it even 10 degrees does absolutely nothing. It will still just bounce the incoming round that would skid into the vertical front 100mm plate. And penetrate it or not, shattered or not, depends on angles and luck, but the odds seems high, even if the shot shattered it most likely would still penetrate, just be less lethal after penetration (no HE). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 The higher ground you are talking about decreases the angle of sloped armor by mere few degrees. Even 60mm of armor if sloped at more than 60deg (from vertical) is simply impenetrable for M10. This part of Tiger's armor is sloped at 80 degrees ! so decreasing it even 10 degrees does absolutely nothing. It will still just bounce the incoming round that would skid into the vertical front 100mm plate. And penetrate it or not, shattered or not, depends on angles and luck, but the odds seems high, even if the shot shattered it most likely would still penetrate, just be less lethal after penetration (no HE). Worth pointing out that it was only an 'armour spalling' penetration which caused the Tiger crew to bail. Don't think anyone was even killed (didn't see any "+"). So this all seems consistent, if perhaps a bit limited in precision by the available 'damage effect' texts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 i can remember that shatter gap only happens with tungsten shells. Not true. The post by Rexford I linked to refers specifically to 3” Chevrolet APCBC. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 The higher ground you are talking about decreases the angle of sloped armor by mere few degrees. Even 60mm of armor if sloped at more than 60deg (from vertical) is simply impenetrable for M10. This part of Tiger's armor is sloped at 80 degrees ! so decreasing it even 10 degrees does absolutely nothing. The section of armor that was actually struck is 100mm thick and sloped at 9 degrees. My earlier post was in error. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amizaur Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I only wanted to point out, that additional angle generated by "look up" or "look down" situations are rarely worth considering at all. It's _usually_ just few degrees and rarely does any significant difference. There is much more random shot-to-shot difference in penetration, than generated by slighty higher or lower angle. A really high (so high to take into condideration) angle-up or angle-down shots are not very common as it would require quite a hill or valley to happen. On the other hand, tanks don't always stand horizontally. A tank may be advancing uphill, going downhill, crossing a trench or just some bump in terrain. 10-degrees "nose down" or "nose up" attitude at the moment of being hit is happening quite often, if the tank is crossing rough terrain, 20-degrees being not unlikely. The fact if the target tank is leveled or not can make a real difference in case of highly sloped armor (Sherman, Panther, T-34). 60 deg vs 70 deg is a whole world of difference, same for 50deg vs 60deg. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civdiv Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Anybody think the guys bailed out of the half track a little too quickly? Not sure if it means much in terms of game play but the first looked to be out of the ht about a second or two after the ht was hit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Anybody think the guys bailed out of the half track a little too quickly? Not sure if it means much in terms of game play but the first looked to be out of the ht about a second or two after the ht was hit. Good reflexes. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgerDog Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Good reflexes. Michael Well, I had to bail from an M113 carrier that was on fire and I can assure you, I was even a LOT faster than the video .. It's called adrenaline ... Regards, Doug 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigduke6 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Yeah, but was it an ueberkitty shooting at you? I didn't think so. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slysniper Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I only wanted to point out, that additional angle generated by "look up" or "look down" situations are rarely worth considering at all. It's _usually_ just few degrees and rarely does any significant difference. There is much more random shot-to-shot difference in penetration, than generated by slighty higher or lower angle. A really high (so high to take into condideration) angle-up or angle-down shots are not very common as it would require quite a hill or valley to happen. On the other hand, tanks don't always stand horizontally. A tank may be advancing uphill, going downhill, crossing a trench or just some bump in terrain. 10-degrees "nose down" or "nose up" attitude at the moment of being hit is happening quite often, if the tank is crossing rough terrain, 20-degrees being not unlikely. The fact if the target tank is leveled or not can make a real difference in case of highly sloped armor (Sherman, Panther, T-34). 60 deg vs 70 deg is a whole world of difference, same for 50deg vs 60deg. agree with this totally. it is much more important as to the slope of the ground the tank is sitting on than the elevational difference as to it impacting how well the armor will work. If the M10 is on the downhill slope, it could loose 10 degrees or more. if you can find a shell hole or bit of high ground to park the front of your tank on. you can improve the armor slope but alot. Plus the game does not prevent over extending the barrel angle, so in a way you are cheating by being able to fire a depressed barrel angle that is impossible and have great slope to your tank armor from the front. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgerDog Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Yeah, but was it an ueberkitty shooting at you? I didn't think so. It was just a joke about a similar real life experience, nothing more .... Regards, Doug 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackMoria Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I second BadgerDog's statement. I bailed out my M113 in nothing flat. I don't know why his track was on fire but my instance was taking 14.7mm fire from a Russian made HMG in Bosnia in 1994. Myself and three others in the carrier and it was empty in like 5 seconds... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 if you can find a shell hole or bit of high ground to park the front of your tank on. you can improve the armor slope but alot. As long as you are not exposing your lower hull to a more direct shot. If you are careful to park behind that bump in such a way that it is covered by it, you should be all right though. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vark Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Due to my crappy monitor I can't read the hit text for the M-10, anyone help? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigduke6 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Still not an ueberkitty, not impressed. I second BadgerDog's statement. I bailed out my M113 in nothing flat. I don't know why his track was on fire but my instance was taking 14.7mm fire from a Russian made HMG in Bosnia in 1994. Myself and three others in the carrier and it was empty in like 5 seconds... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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