xian Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 The two images refer to the same game and the same 60mm mortar. Although the team has 25 rounds available the indirect fire panel displays them as empty??? The team also refuse to fire mortars directly. Note - the ammo was collected from a knocked out mortar team belonging to the same platoon. Surely this is a bug - if not, then can anyone enlighten me as to the cause? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xian Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 Hi, Please see image. Here is another problem. This rifle team 'acquired' 4 AT rockets from a jeep. Their ammo is shown as empty but 4 AT rockets are also shown?! They also refuse to fire their AT capability. Is this a bug? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Hi, Please see image. Here is another problem. This rifle team 'acquired' 4 AT rockets from a jeep. Their ammo is shown as empty but 4 AT rockets are also shown?! They also refuse to fire their AT capability. Is this a bug? AT rockets never show in the numerical ammo display to the left; only as icons in the equipment panel. It's always one or the other, never both. As to why they're not firing the bazooka, I couldn't say for sure, but I suspect it's due to a combination of factors: (a) The unit has already taken one casualty, and 2/3 of the remaining are injured, ( the unit is "Nervous", and © they're out of command. Just a SWAG on my part, but the combination of these may have enough effect on the unit's overall combat stance that they're not very interested in drawing a lot of attention to themselves by firing the 'zook. Given enough time, they might eventually get up the courage, but it might take them a while. I've got no idea on the mortar thing... the mortar team is showing the that they have accessible on their display, so I should think that they'd be able to fire. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xian Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 Thanks for your answer. So, let me get this right. The ammo on the side panel is NOT the same as the AT rocket icons? If so - what is the ammo on the ammo panel? They seem to get used up by the zooks. Yes - the mortar - very strange. I even brought up a second mortar team. They are now sharing the ammo, but also refuse to fire and are shown as empty in indirect fire panel. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Xian, The mortar team does not have any rounds left on their persons. If they did, the rounds would show under their personal ammo display (on the left). The 25 rounds listed on the right are rounds available from a nearby unit, probably another 60mm mortar unit or a ammo bearer unit. If you can get that unit within 8 meters of your empty mortar then they should be able to share ammo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Thanks for your answer. So, let me get this right. The ammo on the side panel is NOT the same as the AT rocket icons? If so - what is the ammo on the ammo panel? They seem to get used up by the zooks. Yes - the mortar - very strange. I even brought up a second mortar team. They are now sharing the ammo, but also refuse to fire and are shown as empty in indirect fire panel. OK; let's try this again: For the team at hand, there are two types of ammo shown numerically in the ammo panel in the lower center-left of the UI: 176 rounds .30 cal. M2 (For the Garands), and 5 Grenades (hand grenades, for throwing, obviously). One of the team members is carrying a Thompson, but apparently he's completely out of ammo, as there's no .45 ACP ammo listed here, which is what the Thompson would use. In the unit "Equipment" panel, in the exact center, there are one pair of binoculars, one bazooka, and 4 bazooka rockets showing (each rocket as a separate icon). So this is the "special" stuff the team is carrying, over and above the "normal" ammo shown numerically in the other panel. And yes, these bazooka rockets will disappear one at a time when and if they are fired. If a given type of ammo/ordnance is shown numerically in the "Ammo" Panel, it is never also shown as an icon in the "Equipment" panel, and vice versa. Clear? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xian Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 Okay - I think I understand. To me it seems a little counter-intuitive, but that's just me I suppose. S0... In the example included (see image) the 4 AT rocket icons are NOT the same as the HEAT rounds in the ammo panel - correct? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 The zook ammo issue has come up before. I tried recreating the problem for a test but I've simply not been able to. Acquired ammo = available ammo every time I try. The only *wild guess* I can come up with (like YankeeDog) is your team casualties may be affecting your access to the acquired ammo, depending on which soldier was carrying it. I haven't tried gunning down zook team members to check on survivors' access to rounds yet. Until we can recreate it under 'laboratory conditions' its hard to say if its a bug or a feature. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Okay - I think I understand. To me it seems a little counter-intuitive, but that's just me I suppose. S0... In the example included (see image) the 4 AT rocket icons are NOT the same as the HEAT rounds in the ammo panel - correct? Correct. Actually, there are no HEAT rounds in the ammo panel. "66mm HE" = Fragmentation (ie., anti-personnel) rifle grenades. I think your confusion comes from assuming the "HE" is a truncation for "HEAT". It's not. "HE" stands for "High-Explosive", and is a term for general purpose explosive rounds. You never truncate HEAT as HE for this reason; people will think you mean something entirely different. One shorter acronym for HEAT rounds that seems to have fallen out of favor in the last few decades is "HC", standing for "Hollow Charge". The M9 bazooka rocket is actually a 60mm rocket, if you're curious. Admittedly, I think "66mm HE" was a poor choice of label for the fragmentation rifle grenades; it's ambiguous and confusing, especially since rifle grenades are usually not cataloged by caliber. "Frag RG" (for "Fragmentation Rifle Grenade", or something like that, would have been a much better, and more accurately descriptive choice, IMHO. Edit to add: Also, to confuse things even further, I note that this particular team actually has only 3 bazooka rockets, and one M9A1 HEAT Rifle Grenade -- note how one of the rocket icons is slightly different than the other three. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Oh, I have a thought about the 60mm mortar. Are they within 'borrowing' distance of 60mm ammo? Perhaps - this a wild guess - they're 'literally' out of ammo but close enough to another unit (the knocked out mortar team?) for the ammo sharing feature to kick in. I'm grasping at straws here 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xian Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 Correct. Actually, there are no HEAT rounds in the ammo panel. "66mm HE" = Fragmentation (ie., anti-personnel) rifle grenades. I think your confusion comes from assuming the "HE" is a truncation for "HEAT". It's not. "HE" stands for "High-Explosive", and is a term for general purpose explosive rounds. You never truncate HEAT as HE for this reason; people will think you mean something entirely different. One shorter acronym for HEAT rounds that seems to have fallen out of favor in the last few decades is "HC", standing for "Hollow Charge". The M9 bazooka rocket is actually a 60mm rocket, if you're curious. Admittedly, I think "66mm HE" was a poor choice of label for the fragmentation rifle grenades; it's ambiguous and confusing, especially since rifle grenades are usually not cataloged by caliber. "Frag RG" (for "Fragmentation Rifle Grenade", or something like that, would have been a much better, and more accurately descriptive choice, IMHO. Edit to add: Also, to confuse things even further, I note that this particular team actually has only 3 bazooka rockets, and one M9A1 HEAT Rifle Grenade -- note how one of the rocket icons is slightly different than the other three. Thanks for the reply. Just to clarify: What are the 60mm HEAT rounds in the 'zook' team's ammo panel? It looks like a duplication to me. Every time an AT Rocket is fired the 60mm HEAT in ammo panel (on the right of GUI) also drops by one. And it says HEAT (HC) - not HE (see image on my previous reply). I'm not referring to the 66mm ammo. Also, sorry to correct you , but that team has 4 AT rockets and 1 AT grenade. ------- Yes Mikey, you are correct, they are borrowing from a knocked out Mortar. It's right next to them (2 meters away). But they still refuse to fire. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Thanks for the reply. Just to clarify: What are the 60mm HEAT rounds in the 'zook' team's ammo panel? It looks like a duplication to me. Every time an AT Rocket is fired the 60mm HEAT in ammo panel (on the right of GUI) also drops by one. And it says HEAT (HC) - not HE (see image on my previous reply). I'm not referring to the 66mm ammo. Also, sorry to correct you , but that team has 4 AT rockets and 1 AT grenade. Yes; sorry. 4 AT rockets and 1 AT Rifle Grenade. And yes; the info panel to the far right does duplicate the info of the graphical icons in the center. So this count of 4 60mm HEAT will drop simultaneously with the number of bazooka rocket icons in the center equipment panel. There is one significant difference between the ammo count of bazooka rockets shown in the center panel, and the count shown on the right: The ammo count on right is actually a total ammo AVAILABLE count, not total ammo CARRIED. So, if there were another friendly team nearby (within 2 action spots, IIRC), from the same platoon, that was also carrying bazooka rockets, the number here would include the rockets this other team was carrying as well. You'll see this with MGs as well. For example, an MG team itself might be carrying 700 rounds of MG ammo. But if it has an ammo bearer team nearby carrying another 1000 rounds, the total ammo available count on the right will show 1700 rounds. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xian Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 Okay, for clarification please compare the two 'zook' teams in the included image. Please notice the lack of ammo on the right of GUI on lower image. This is the team that refuses to fire its bazooka. The AT guy has the 'zook' tube strapped to his back but wont utilise it. Perhaps he thinks he is out of ammo despite acquiring 4 AT rockets? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Okay, for clarification please compare the two 'zook' teams in the included image. Please notice the lack of ammo on the right of GUI on lower image. This is the team that refuses to fire its bazooka. The AT guy has the 'zook' tube strapped to his back but wont utilise it. Perhaps he thinks he is out of ammo despite acquiring 4 AT rockets? I can't fire up the game at the moment to check this, but I think that's because he presently has his rifle in hand. When and if he decides to switch to the 'zook, his weapon icon also show the zook (as it does in the top team), and the ammo display on the far right will show the zook rockets. Out of curiosity, what target(s) are the team presently being presented with? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xian Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 Targets are 4 panther tanks (within 180 m). Plus he can see one infantry unit (100 m). Many other units are engaging the infantry though. Plus, he is uninjured. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 There are a number of reasons why a unit might have ammo, or access to ammo, and not fire, so save would be needed to investigate further. Given the damage the bazooka team has taken, I suspect the launcher is out of action. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I've seen some long attempts by bazookas but 180m is pushing it. I wouldn't fire at that range either unless I was already spotted and had no alternative. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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