noob Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 I started my first game with the new patch the other day and my first task was to move vehicles in column down two paved roads and as i never allow vehicles to turn at right angles i plotted some extra way points for a gentler turning curve. I was very dissapointed to see two vehicles drive off the road and proceed along the side of the road in the verge which allowed units behind who were still on the road to catch up and overtake them which messed with the order the vehicles were supposed to travel in. Another vehicle overan its waypoint at a corner and drove through a hedge which damaged its wheels and given its mission was one requiring speed the error stung even more. When i came to do my orders one vehicle that was just approaching a gentle corner had lost one of its waypoints and was now drawing a straight waypoint line from the vehicle to a further point down the road thus cutting the corner into a hedge, fortunately i had the chance to rectify this. Given i wasn't trying anything fancy and all my vehicles had pauses to stop pile ups i would of thought the instructions given would of been carried out properly, but if there is so much unpredictability about simply driving along paved roads then any missions that rely on speed will be seriously compromised. I would be interested to hear from anyone that has experienced something similar. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xian Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 I'm sure it's a difficult thing to program, but I agree that some of the TacAI pathing choices do, on occasion, seem unrealistic and can cause undesirable effects. It's even more irritating when you are trying to design a scenario and get a column of AI vehicles to behave reasonably. I imagine BFC are aware of the limitations - I'm not sure how much they can do to improve it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob Posted July 26, 2011 Author Share Posted July 26, 2011 I'm sure it's a difficult thing to program, but I agree that some of the TacAI pathing choices do, on occasion, seem unrealistic and can cause undesirable effects. It's even more irritating when you are trying to design a scenario and get a column of AI vehicles to behave reasonably. I imagine BFC are aware of the limitations - I'm not sure how much they can do to improve it? Well given that the situation was at the start of the game and the units were under no pressure from enemy fire i think its quite bad and definately needs fixing, however i am going to test to see if its anything to do with the spacing between the vehicles. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadsword56 Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Are you giving the vehicles "slow" movement commands around curves and at turns? I find that helps a lot. Also. are you putting staggered pauses all along the column, so that vehicle #2 starts in 5 sec. vehicle #3 in 10 sec, etc? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Yeah, a CONVOY command would be great. In the meantime, remember that the vehicles do not have pre-knowledge of the next movement command. They will go FAST (for example) right to the endpoint of a FAST command. They don't track the path, they aim for the endpoint. If the next movement endpoint is 90^ to the left, the FAST moving vehicle will overshoot the path. It will eventually get turned to face that next point and will go directly at it. It sounds like you understand that, based on plotting multiple points for curved turns. I include it for others who may learn from it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob Posted July 26, 2011 Author Share Posted July 26, 2011 Are you giving the vehicles "slow" movement commands around curves and at turns? I find that helps a lot. Also. are you putting staggered pauses all along the column, so that vehicle #2 starts in 5 sec. vehicle #3 in 10 sec, etc? I thought of doing some slower movement orders at corners myself so i did some more tests with the overunning vehicle, it was a jeep by the way, and i found that using the quick command instead of fast at corners and turns solved that problem. As for the pauses, i used them originally to no effect so i did some more testing and the problem is repeatable, just load the scenario Huzzar as a single player turn based game and choose the US side, then without moving any units plot fast movement orders down the paved road to the town for the two Greyhounds and the Jeep belonging to the left hand group, give the second Greyhound a 5 second pause and the Jeep a 15 second pause and then watch the results, everytime i run it the second Greyhound and the Jeep run off the road and then follow the first by driving alongside the road in the verge only to move back onto the road near the first corner. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy Lurking Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Vehicle navigation and especially convoying has been a BIG problem ever since CM 1. I think all pixeltrupen drivers are green, cheated their eyesight test and are probably half-cut and rolling their own. Anyway, for now, get over it, sink another pint and go for immersion... David 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiner14 Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 If reducing the speed reduces the problem, why can't this problem be solved with a simple check of the angle of movement paths? If the angle between two movement-pathsegments on a street > X and vehicle speed > Y then automatically insert an additional segment around the corner with lower speed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Not all vehicles are built equal. Trucks seem to be almost completely unable to make a turn sometimes. AIUI, movement orders have 'overrun', dependent on the speed of the unit and their agility, so if you're moving slow-turning vehicles, it seems to me to be a good idea to have the last little bit of any 'straight' be a 'Slow', before you start plotting any deviations in course, otherwise the vehicle might overrun the beginning of your Slow turn, and futz about trying to get back on track. Slowly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoex Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 ...snipped... If the next movement endpoint is 90^ to the left, the FAST moving vehicle will overshoot the path. It will eventually get turned to face that next point and will go directly at it. Ken, I'm not sure that is the way I would describe it. Initially vehicles never overshoot their paths, they tend to undershoot them instead if they have another move order after the one they are on. The current move order vanishes before the vehicle reaches its endpoint if there is another move order following, and it (sometimes) begins to turn. If the vehicle needs to stop to turn because the turn is too tight, it will always stop (center mass) right bang on the waypoint in question unless the terrain precludes this (true, however, that if there is space they will often leave the move path to make a wider curve, this may be what you meant. Keep reading anyway ). Unfortunately this is not visible in TB mode, since the move paths are not shown in the replays. This is an advantage of RT (one of many...). Anyhow, while testing this out I found a strange bug in the behaviour of a Kübelwagen tasked to race around a map with some tight turns in its path. The Kübel has a Rotate order attached to a waypoint in the middle of its path ('cause I want it to rotate before continuing to move). Well, the strange thing is, the Kübel continues to move without rotating first (makes a biiiig curve instead), but takes the Rotate order along with it (visibly even in TB mode!) all the way to the end of its entire move path and then executes it there. Intentional? I don't think so... Have a save file of this. Two, actually - one in TB and one in RT (so you can see the move orders while watching). Both are in setup phase on a test map. Anyone want them? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sitting Duck Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 I thought of doing some slower movement orders at corners myself so i did some more tests with the overunning vehicle, it was a jeep by the way, and i found that using the quick command instead of fast at corners and turns solved that problem... My jeep can't turn for sh!t. In fact it has a warning...something like this: Perhaps CMBN roads should get these installed to avoid convoy problems: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Ken, I'm not sure that is the way I would describe it. Initially vehicles never overshoot their paths, they tend to undershoot them instead if they have another move order after the one they are on. The current move order vanishes before the vehicle reaches its endpoint if there is another move order following, and it (sometimes) begins to turn. If the vehicle needs to stop to turn because the turn is too tight, it will always stop (center mass) right bang on the waypoint in question unless the terrain precludes this (true, however, that if there is space they will often leave the move path to make a wider curve, this may be what you meant. Keep reading anyway ). Unfortunately this is not visible in TB mode, since the move paths are not shown in the replays. This is an advantage of RT (one of many...). Anyhow, while testing this out I found a strange bug in the behaviour of a Kübelwagen tasked to race around a map with some tight turns in its path. The Kübel has a Rotate order attached to a waypoint in the middle of its path ('cause I want it to rotate before continuing to move). Well, the strange thing is, the Kübel continues to move without rotating first (makes a biiiig curve instead), but takes the Rotate order along with it (visibly even in TB mode!) all the way to the end of its entire move path and then executes it there. Intentional? I don't think so... Have a save file of this. Two, actually - one in TB and one in RT (so you can see the move orders while watching). Both are in setup phase on a test map. Anyone want them? Yeah, my explanation was a bit simplitfied. I'm curious about your description. Post the savegames somewhere here or PM me. Thanks, Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 ...i found that using the quick command instead of fast... Yike! If you were using Fast on corners, then no wonder you were having problems. I usually go no faster than Normal (N) speed and will sometimes slow all the way down on a tight right angle corner, especially with a poorly turning vehicle. The advice by womble to begin slowing down a little before reaching the corner is also good and what I do. These vehicles have a certain amount of inertia programmed into them and must be driven at least somewhat as their real-life counterparts are. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broken Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Good to see this topic brought up again. The lack of convoy commands or convoy AI has been a bugaboo since CM1. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 It is possible to drive some vehicles "Fast" round corners. I've found scout cars and jeeps will maintain top speed if you obsessively click a 'racing line' round corners up to about 45degrees of normal road. You can use the shoulders a bit, but you have to be careful, because if "Fast" for a given distance on the shoulder seems to the TacAI that it would be slower than staying on the road, the vehicle seems sometimes to get confused and start 'hunting' (in the engine/governor sense, not the CM command sense) between its various instructions, and that way lies disaster. Trucks though, there's almost no point moving them faster than Slow except on long straight legs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Trucks though, there's almost no point moving them faster than Slow except on long straight legs. So far I am doing okay using Fast in the straights, and slowing down to Move for the corners. But neither am I having them make sharp right-angled turns. I guess if I were to try that, I'd drop all the way down to Slow. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Just found this post and I am having problems with German Half Tracks going around corners. Some seem to work OK then others just turn to sharply (despite several waypoints plotted to smooth it out) and end up facing the wrong way when looking at the space IRL it should have just gone round the corner easily. I have started to use normal moves but this does not always seem to work, so will try slow. It would be good if this can be improved in any way by BTS? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Greyhounds in the Two Bridges scenario: http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?p=1304651#post1304651 On a paved road and no convoy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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