Gen. J-sun Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 I've been running a few tests on various armor, I've noticed the unbuttoned crews suffer fewer casualties as the attacking troops aim center-mass (into the armor) as opposed to firing at the exposed crew, this is painfully obvious when using non-automatic weapons. Or am I going crazy? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Interesting. If infantry are shooting center of mass at AFVs instead of at the exposed commander in the turret that would explain why I've seen so few tank commanders killed by small arms fire. It would also mean that infantry shooting at unbuttoned tanks is even more stupid than we thought. How did you test this? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wego McPbem Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 In my last game my opponent had a panzerschreck team prone in some grass. My sherman came round the corner, the schreck guy switched from his already equipped schreck to his pistol, got on his knees and fired his pistol into the frontal armour of it at which point the sherman spotted him and took him out. Needless to say, he wasn't very happy. I could have just about bought it if the shot was aimed at the tc but choosing to fire a handgun into the tanks armour when he had a schreck ready to go made no sense at all. On the other hand I have had an mp40 wielding member of a vehicle crew target the tc of a moving tank at quite a distance and hit him which impressed me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen. J-sun Posted July 6, 2011 Author Share Posted July 6, 2011 It wasn't a direct test I was running a different test about mortars vs light vehicles at minimum range the gunners fired and I noticed this after a few turns of no casualties. It seems the automatic weapons compensate with the spread but I doubt they are taking aim. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen. J-sun Posted July 9, 2011 Author Share Posted July 9, 2011 Ran a test on the subject with 4 Snipers at varying distances in front of Sherman M4A1s and Tigers, fanatic crews regular experience. The snipers were unmodified, no automatic weapons were used to demonstrate that aimed shots are incapable of killing a TC on level ground ran the test 3 times with each tank no casualties scored at all. The test continued until all ammo was expended (123 rounds x 4). Out of nearly 3000 rounds no injuries of any sort, although the game does claim that rounds hitting the commanders coupla as "Front Turret Penetration". I plan on rerunning the test as the TC's 50 may have afforded him significant protection although based on the results of the Tiger it doesn't seem to matter much anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Oh, that sounds bad. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Confirmed. I tested US snipers against unbuttoned Panthers at 300m. The snipers can blaze away all day and never hit a tank commander. The vast majority of shots hit the "weapon mount", suggesting the snipers are aiming at the tank commander's center of mass, which is inside the tank. Just as oddly, the tank commanders do not button up under fire. Test saved game: http://www.2shared.com/file/vuj0R5OA/gunnery_sniper.html 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen. J-sun Posted July 9, 2011 Author Share Posted July 9, 2011 Yes I excluded that, I thought it was a result of them being fanatic. I tested with a height advantage and had very limited success but these shots came from the spotter firing rapidly, the snipers hit low depite being even with the TC. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Just set up a test with 10 US snipers (elite skill, snipers only, spotters removed by reducing headcount) against 10 side-on Panther A (mid)s at approximately 100m. Within 1 minute 4 tanks had lost their TC, 3 tanks had lost their TC and the TC's replacement, and 1 tank had a lightly-wounded TC. I don't think these results would be possible if the snipers weren't aiming for the TCs. So unless something has changed during patch development that directly affects this, a blanket statement that snipers cannot aim at and hit TCs would appear to be wrong. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 So elite snipers can hit the commanders at 100 side-on, but regular snipers cannot or very rarely do at 300m head-on. Is that an acceptably worded statement? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 So elite snipers can hit the commanders at 100 side-on, but regular snipers cannot or very rarely do at 300m head-on. Is that an acceptably worded statement? Based on a comparison of our tests, yes, but I have not tested the same with the beta. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 I just repeated the test with elite snipers. No casualties. Tried again with elite snipers and the Panthers perpendicular to the incoming fire. Again, no casualties after several minutes of fire. This was at 300m. I'm going to start shortening the distance to see at what distance the invincibility wears off. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew H. Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 I'm not sure that there is a problem with these results. AFAIK, the "snipers" in the game are just the designated marksmen from the infantry squads. They may be better shots than usual, but expecting them to regularly perform headshots under battle conditions at 300 meters seems pretty unrealistic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Regularly? I'm seeing "never", even with elites. I could definitely hit a human head-sized target at 300m with any decent scoped rifle, and I'm just a regular joe civilian. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 I moved the Panthers to within 200m. Still no casualties. I then adjusted the height of the snipers to 9m (I have been testing them at 6m). No difference. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Just set up a test with 10 US snipers (elite skill, snipers only, spotters removed by reducing headcount) against 10 side-on Panther A (mid)s at approximately 100m. Within 1 minute 4 tanks had lost their TC, 3 tanks had lost their TC and the TC's replacement, and 1 tank had a lightly-wounded TC. I don't think these results would be possible if the snipers weren't aiming for the TCs. So unless something has changed during patch development that directly affects this, a blanket statement that snipers cannot aim at and hit TCs would appear to be wrong. I cannot replicate these results. I have set up my test exactly as you describe. I have run the test with the snipers on a 9m hill and with them at ground level. I have run it with the Panthers' left side facing the snipers and with the right side. In none of these tests did I see even one TC hit. http://www.2shared.com/file/dtpJ6QuU/gunnery_sniper_aboutface.html 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 I cannot replicate these results. I have set up my test exactly as you describe. I have run the test with the snipers on a 9m hill and with them at ground level. I have run it with the Panthers' left side facing the snipers and with the right side. In none of these tests did I see even one TC hit. http://www.2shared.com/file/dtpJ6QuU/gunnery_sniper_aboutface.html Ran from the save and 6 TCs were shot in the first minute. I guess something in the code has changed for the patch. Will have to keep looking at longer ranges (beyond 300m), however, as I'm not seeing any hits at all there in my own tests. Not sure if this is really a problem since the TC presents a very, very small target. Definitely worth testing some more. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Oh, from your post at the top of this page I was under the impression you were testing with 1.00. At least it's being looked into. As for never hitting at 300m, if the sniper can see it he should be able to hit it at least occasionally, especially after repeated attempts. If it is impossible in the game the TacAI should realize that and hold fire. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siffo998 Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 I`ve tested the same situation yesterday after seeing this post. i set up 8 lanes each with a sniper regular and a sherman m4a3 (back side facing the sniper, and another test with left side facing the sniper) and i can confirm that all 8 snipers (at multiple ranges from 200-800m) did not hit the tc even after 10 minutes of firing. i can also confirm this center mass curiosity from a different situation. one tanks sees an enemy tank and opens fire at him...there is a little height with an hedge on it between them... the firing tank can clearly see at least the turret of the enemy tank but puts multiple rounds inside the hedge instead of aiming higher... after one minute of firing i pulled him back... but maybe something really has changed with the new patch we will see. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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