Fire rate should be based on ammo level

[SlapHappy]

After loading up my BAR team with over 1500 rounds to share with the rifleman, it seems disconcerting somewhat to find the same anemic amount of fire coming out of this team when they had only about 480 rounds between them.

I feel ROF for troops should be governed by available ammo supply and technical limitations of the weapon itself. This should be especially noticeable in a decrease of time between rounds or bursts for well supplied soldiers.

The other modifier should be range to target, and thus chance of hitting anything. But I believe this is already simulated to some extent. Perhaps it could be looked at for extreme long distance and short distance firing.

True, this could give a firepower boost to the MG-42 and thus boost the German advantage, but it would also benefit the Garand bearing US GI who could see some benefit to his suppression capability at certain ranges.

[Oddball_E8]

dont forget that a weapons barrel heats up real fast when firing bursts, so the ammount of ammo they have is not the primary factor, its how hot the gun is getting...

just because a gun has a rate of fire of so-and-so much, doesnt mean it can fire that fast in reality without suffering severe damage...

[BloodyBucket]

It's an interesting idea. It could also slow down units that were extremely low on ammo, making the out of ammo problem even rarer.

[SlapHappy]

I feel ROF for troops should be governed by available ammo supply and technical limitations of the weapon itself.

I included that in my statement, as you can see above.

It might be more accurate to say I feel ROF should be MODIFIED by ammo level as well as technical

limitations and range.

[akd]

I believe RoF does drop when ammo gets very low. As far as having RoF vary constantly based on current ammo levels, I'm not so sure I buy this as realistic. I don't think a soldier in battle is going to reduce his RoF by 25% because ammo levels have dropped to 75%. Other than running very low, I think the other factors are much more likely to dominate.

[SlapHappy]

I was thinking along the lines of four or so levels, not a round for round decrease. Something a little more subtle than what you suggest.

[Jarink]

Were those 1500 rounds already loaded into the 20 round mags that a BAR uses? I'm guessing not. Therefore, once they've blown through their normal load (which for a BAR was about 260 rds - the ammo belts BAR gunners wore carried 12 mags), the rate of fire should drop to represent the time needed to reload all those mags.

I'm actually kind of kidding...

[SlapHappy]

Were those 1500 rounds already loaded into the 20 round mags that a BAR uses? I'm guessing not. Therefore, once they've blown through their normal load (which for a BAR was about 260 rds - the ammo belts BAR gunners wore carried 12 mags), the rate of fire should drop to represent the time needed to reload all those mags.

I'm actually kind of kidding...

No, that's a realistic consideration for magazine based weapons.

[YankeeDog]

I'm not convinced there needs to be a difference in rate of fire for teams with an overabundance of ammo. "Enough" and "Running Low" is all the differentiation I see a need for.

In the example at hand, 480 rounds for a BAR team would still break down to 20 clips for the BAR, plus 5 Garand clips each for the other two guys (at least one of whom would mostly be assisting the BAR gunner, and not firing himself a lot of the time).

1500 rounds .30-'06 ammo is a huge amount for 3 guys to be carrying. I would expect to see increased fatigue when moving with a team loaded like that, but I'm not convinced such an overabundance should cause a noticeable increase in rate of fire. I'm skeptical soldiers would really think this way. And in any event, as noted, the BAR's lack of a changeable barrel caps the practical sustained ROF to a pretty low level for a team like this.

Now, as ammo for the team runs lower, supply concerns should kick in at some point. Exactly when ammo conservation should start to affect behavior is definitely a judgment call, but I don't see ammo supply concerns affecting ROF for a BAR team with 480 rounds. As a SWAG, I see ammo levels starting to become a concern somewhere around 200 rounds for a team like this, maybe a bit lower.

[RockinHarry]

Rates of fire and ammo expenditure depends also on individual nations "fire/engagement tactics". In case of the german HMG34/42 the STANDARD use is "continuous" bursts and a "fire order" at a particular target would usually include amount of ammo to be used. Standard measure would be 1 belt (of 50 rounds), 2 or more, dependent upon particular target. ..until barrel needs to be changed. Also standard procedure includes to keep an iron reserve of 200-300 rounds.

Allied water cooled HMGs would benefit even more from using "continuous bursts" in the game.

I guess the main "problem" in the game is rather "target switching" and time chunks to be used, in order to achieve certain weapon effects. Maybe the game code considers bursts of up to 7-9 rounds on a single target (infantry squad/team) enough to ascertain desired game effects (suppression, wounded, kills), so computing times are kept to a limit to keep frame rates up?

Other point to consider is that various wargames of this scale keep ROF low, in order to provide more "action time". If game length is 60 minutes and ammo is burned through in 10, what to do in the remaining 50?

Nonetheless, I´d prefer realistic ROFs in conjunction with faster ammo expenditure and have ammo replenishment improved as well (ammo/supply points in or near the frontline, which are necessarily NOT vehicles).

[Pevs86]

Would be nice to get options when setting Target/Covering Arcs similar to that of Artillery - i.e harassing fire, continuous fire, etc. - or some variation of. It would mean manually keeping an eye on ammo, but I'd imagine it'd be much easier to implement