Casualties question.

[packito]

Why always the end result is more dead than wounded, should not be reversed? I think that in any battle is always the number of casualties in wounded, prisoners, missing persons is higher than the dead.

I do not know if the medical soldier that may change

Congratulations BF a great Demo

[mjkerner]

That's my one (minor) gripe with the game, I just view it as an early AAR before all the troop leaders have reported in and many dead and missing become present for duty or wounded. Or I just reverse the numbers in my head.

But it may have an affect on game campaigns; if so, I hope the adjust it eventually.

[MikeyD]

I suspect it might be because the scenarios are at the 'tip of the spear' and the generals (us) are reckless. Our platoon gets mortared then five minutes later we send the rattled survivors rushing through a gap in the hedgerows. It usually doesn't end well.

[packito]

That's my one (minor) gripe with the game, I just view it as an early AAR before all the troop leaders have reported in and many dead and missing become present for duty or wounded. Or I just reverse the numbers in my head.

But it may have an affect on game campaigns; if so, I hope the adjust it eventually.

I understand how quick report, but as you rightly say campaigns would not be a good result. Thank you

[sawomi]

CM-games are more deadly than real live. I think it has (at least) do do something with human psychology. In game when a unit spots an enemy it aims as good as it can. In real life you get only a small number of individuals to realy aim a weapon on other humans and try to kill them in earnestness as long as the don't are in true live-danger for themself in the moment. Many soldiers just pretend to try to shoot the 'enemy...

[packito]

I suspect it might be because the scenarios are at the 'tip of the spear' and the generals (us) are reckless. Our platoon gets mortared then five minutes later we send the rattled survivors rushing through a gap in the hedgerows. It usually doesn't end well.

You are in right, we send sprites to death hahaha

Thanks

[MikeyD]

Let's also recall Normandy was no walk in the park. The Germans lost something on the order of 60,000 men in nine days along a 20 mile front around Falaise, if distant memory serves. That's carnage on a grand scale. Think of 'average' highschool shooting deaths across the country, then think of the Colombine massacre. Sometimes the averages don't apply.

[Broadsword56]

I've read that US battalions in Normandy generally estimated 4 wounded for every KIA -- that's the ballpark rule-of-thumb they developed for intelligence purposes, when they advanced and looked at the German corpses immediately after a scrap, and tried to estimate enemy losses vs. their own.

[gunnergoz]

US experience in WW2 was something in the order of 3 wounded per 1 killed, but that is a statistical average that could vary greatly due to individual circumstances.

My one Tutorial US win to date had 5 US KIA and 16 WIA, but the Germans had 47 KIA and 28 WIA with 7 more missing. But I really hit them hard with mortars in the open so I would think that fact, plus their abysmal morale, would account for greater German casualties (panicking while pinned then getting over-run or hit by mortars, etc.)

And it is a game, we push the pixeltruppen hard and the AI probably does too. If the game allowed for truly realistic "breaking point" behavior and for realistic individual cases of cowardice/fright/ineptitude, we as players would probably scream our heads off when the pixeltruppen failed to do what we wanted them to do.

At the same time, if our experience with the released game shows this to be a consistent problem of high KIA/WIA ratios, then there just might be an issue with the formulas that determine who is lightly wounded, who is seriously wounded and who dies outright.

[Wengart]

I imagine that often times a platoon would lose a handful of men and call it a day, whereas players often continue to push units into the meat grinder long after they've reached 50% casualties.

[sawomi]

[...]... then there just might be an issue with the formulas that determine who is lightly wounded, who is seriously wounded and who dies outright.

@ BFC: Is the CMx2-engine theoretical up to claculate human vitals as it is up to calculate technological parts/units of vehicles?

[GonzoAttacker]

I have read many first person books recently and in the scope of battle CMBN has played out like their descriptions. You got to remember once engaged it was very difficult to pull out. Unless you have bounding companies or cover of darkness almost impossible in a 45 minute firefight. Also artillery pre sighted was a way to save lifes and the US learned this in the bocage, especially at night.

[womble]

I imagine that often times a platoon would lose a handful of men and call it a day, whereas players often continue to push units into the meat grinder long after they've reached 50% casualties.

Having just finished "Road to Berlin", my two infantry platoons had interestingly diverse experience. I ended up with 30 casualties, split nearly evenly between WIA and KIA. Most of those were sustained on the platoon and weapons squads that went up the left flank, and were almost all from Mortar bombs. I tried to leave squads around to give buddy aid, but most of 'em were already dead, or the position was too exposed. That platoon suffered ~50% casualties and was 'rattled' for the rest of the scenario, and I left it in inconspicuous cover, apart from the squad that had made it into the farmhouse, and that wasn't going to be pressing any more assaults.

The right hand attack managed to stay mostly ahead of the mortars, and was combat ineffective by the time we got to the objective, only through ammo exhaustion. Hardly lost a man.

[MikeyD]

I recall one particularly tough CMSF NATO campaign scenario I elected to stand back trading shots, let them keep the objective and try to squeak a win through attrition of forces. Some others were outraged that I'd play a scenario like that instead of the standard 'total war mode' carnage.