Air support

[Michael Emrys]

I am with you Michael regarding the vastly different capabilities of airpower from the two era's. Let's hope it is modeled.

I have no anxieties at all on this issue. On the other hand, there are several which justify apprehension. For instance, the presence or absence on the battlefield of dead livestock and other litter. I stay awake nights in a cold sweat over this one. I realize BFC's time and resources are limited, but jeez.

In CM:SF recently (Germans vs. Syrians), I had several BMP's get hit while located in or on the edge of woods, and then finally a tank was hit while surrounded by trees. I also had infantry hit in a building. Kind a makes me wonder what's up. Blue didn't have any FO with a laser designator on the infantry that I was aware of.....maybe they did. Of course modern technology has the ability to do all that I just listed.

Perhaps the attacking aircraft had IR sensors? Doesn't seem unlikely to me. And if any JSTARS were in the neighborhood, they could also spy out the vehicles.

Michael

[sburke]

I have not seen anyone answer to this yet:

I have not found the quote yet, but, I seem to recall in a post not too long ago that air support was treated in a way similar to preparatory bombardment. You may call in air support only during the first turn, or in the setup phase. I'm not sure exactly which. But I do not believe it is handled the same way as it is in CMSF where you call in air strikes at will (so to speak).

I'm going by memory here so any correction would be appreciated.

I hope this goes towards answering your question.

This is the one I was referencing earlier.

CAS is modelled in the game. Just you have to watch for 'danger close' any air support called in on targets less than a Km away is asking for a Blue on Blue incident. There is another thread chatting about CAS right now. Just checking but in my beta version of the game only Forward Observers, Platoon HQ and above can call in CAS.

It doesn't specifically detail the behavior, but I suspect it may be something very general perhaps calling it in, but not being able to call specific targets. In CMx1 it simply appeared as a reinforcing element and you hoped they actually made a contribution to the fight or at least didn't shoot your own. It appears now you may be able to call it in as artillery, but whether you can cite targets hasn't been spelled out.

[sburke]

I have no anxieties at all on this issue. On the other hand, there are several which justify apprehension. For instance, the presence or absence on the battlefield of dead livestock and other litter. I stay awake nights in a cold sweat over this one. I realize BFC's time and resources are limited, but jeez.

Michael

Can dead cows be a "flavor item"? If so can they provide cover? :-D In the case of living animals, would my country boy pixeltruppen be distracted by some particularly cute sheep? Dang I should have asked that in the discussion about who made better soldiers, city slickers or country folk.

[dieseltaylor]

Woods in Normandy - well apart from numerous orchards trees were actually planted for a reason and therefore any images of how dense and tangled woods are may need to be reigned back.

Hiding from aircraft would be difficult unless they were fast moving and you were not moving and had some rudimentary camouflage. Hiding from Piper Cubs was of course much more difficult if they were loitering overhead.

Though not relevant to Normandy, in France up until the 1950's over 100 chemicals were derived from trees . And amusingly I discovered this site which discusses cars running on wood!

http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2010/01/wood-gas-cars.html

[Michael Emrys]

Hiding from Piper Cubs was of course much more difficult if they were loitering overhead.

Hmmm, I find myself wondering how much loitering the L3s and L4s did over German positions since they would have been extremely vulnerable even to small arms fire. I thought the practice was that they tried to stay over friendly lines and use their height advantage to do their spotting. I think mainly they were looking for German artillery for counter battery fire and groups of vehicles moving on roads, both of which were relatively easy to spot from a distance.

ISTR that at some point during the campaign the artillery observers began to use P-51s in order to be more survivable. The tradeoff was that of course it was harder to spot from a fast mover, especially against anything making a serious effort to hide.

Michael

[George MC]

This is the one I was referencing earlier.

It doesn't specifically detail the behavior, but I suspect it may be something very general perhaps calling it in, but not being able to call specific targets. In CMx1 it simply appeared as a reinforcing element and you hoped they actually made a contribution to the fight or at least didn't shoot your own. It appears now you may be able to call it in as artillery, but whether you can cite targets hasn't been spelled out.

If you have air support you can call it in and direct it. Mind though this is not 2010. You can assuming you have 'eyes on' e.g. an enemy tank sitting at the edge of a wood call it in as a spot target i.e. hit that and that alone. How accurate it'll be - well it looks pretty impressive but I've been on the receiving end of air attacks in CMBN and generally if you have armour you'll get away with it, unless they are lucky, then you can bet your tank will lost bits and pieces, maybe be immobilized. Soft skin vehicles and half tracks are easy meat though.

Take care about danger close though. I think you really need a large map to avoid Blue on Blue incidents.

[gunnersman]

If you have air support you can call it in and direct it. Mind though this is not 2010. You can assuming you have 'eyes on' e.g. an enemy tank sitting at the edge of a wood call it in as a spot target i.e. hit that and that alone. How accurate it'll be - well it looks pretty impressive but I've been on the receiving end of air attacks in CMBN and generally if you have armour you'll get away with it, unless they are lucky, then you can bet your tank will lost bits and pieces, maybe be immobilized. Soft skin vehicles and half tracks are easy meat though.

Take care about danger close though. I think you really need a large map to avoid Blue on Blue incidents.

Outstanding! Thanks George!

[Magpie_Oz]

Hmmm, I find myself wondering how much loitering the L3s and L4s did over German positions since they would have been extremely vulnerable even to small arms fire.

Even a slow moving light plane is pretty hard to hit with a rifle or non-AA mounted MG, of course an AA gun would take it down pretty quick.

From 2000' you can see quite a deal but are well above effective small arms fire and as the Viet Cong found out many years later, shooting at something that has a regiment of artillery and ground attack aircraft on immediate call ......... well let's just say you better make those first shots count.