Vietnam

[imij0607]

So I haven't tried this expansion yet, but it looks great. I just recently purchased all the shock force expansions. I was wondering if battlefront wont touch this maybe you guys will - a vietnam expansion...

any thoughts?

[LongLeftFlank]

Vietnam gets requested here about as frequently as the Arab-Israeli wars. Last request was Feb 5... EDIT: by you, in fact.

And BFC has said repeatedly they have no interest in either. Briefly, A-I conflict is too hot button political. Vietnam (and Pacific) jungles are too problematic for the engine.

Their preferred sandbox is company-battalion scale engagements involving combined arms (armour and infantry). The engine can indeed do much more than that, but they aren't going out of their way to create content; at least not at present.

EDIT: Since you know all the above already and are clearly dead keen on the 'Nam, perhaps you want to take up the challenge yourself. The total absence of water in the existing toolset means you're limited to the dry season, but it probably isn't too hard to work up some dry rice paddies (with embankments), rubber or palm oil plantations and cane fields. The Central Highlands are your oyster. Towns and cities aren't much different from the Middle East -- poured cement and mud brick, just lots more water stains. You could also steal some of M1A1TC's building mods for his Korea project.

Do a nice map and perhaps some uniform grogs will come along to do some uniform mods and Asiatic faces for you.

Just rambling here, but 1960s US ground forces seem to have more in common with a Syrian or Russian force than a 21st century Western one.... nothing like SAWs until the 1970s anyway. So maybe you could use US M240 teams to give you your M60 surrogates with heavily modded Syrian Special Forces as the HQ and infantry squads. They ride GAZ jeeps, which roughly fits, as do the MTVR trucks. Use texture swapping to give the "Syrians" white/black faces, helmets and weapons even though they'll perform and sound like AKs (marksmanship and fire discipline wasn't as good back then). Can't help you with the thump guns -- patching in British mortarmen too seems a bit of an overreach.

VC would be black-pajamaed Uncons -- although those headscarves will look a little funny on them (although it IS dry season....). More texture swapping perhaps? No idea how you'd pull off the conical hats either.

Or perhaps CMA is a better platform, although far fewer people seem to own and play it than the CMSF family. In that case, it's Russians modded as Americans facing Afghan Army modded as VC? I don't think the muj beards can be removed.

[Moon]

(BTW, Afghanistan is not an expansion, but a standalone game; you do not need any of the CMSF games or modules in order to play Afghanistan; just to clarify)

[imij0607]

Ahh yea, sorry I have no idea how to make skins or graphics for a mod. I'd devote the time, but not qualified for the work =). I'm assuming that there would need to be a lot of work done on the number side as well seeing as how the equipment, troop qualities, etc were different for that time period.

oh well - i'll just drop it and dream lol.

[GI Jas]

I think Vietnam would work. Afghanistan is basically Guerrilla Warfare - that same hit and run tactics that the NVA and the VC used for that matter. Except larger in force and better mechinized equipment like tanks. SAMS also played a huge role. And if you think it's still too hot to make you have to admit the same with the modern Russian and Afghanistan. So really what is it? Mmmm, "we dont feel it will sell well or it's too much work to make jungles... hum, most major Vietnam battlefields were cleared of jungle by agent orange and bombs" my uncle died from it's effects here recently. Have you seen how well BF Bad Company - Vietnam expansion sold? Nah, I think you would have more sales than from some fantasy modern war conflict that will never happen. I hate the desert anyways... so did Rommel. Point is, if you get soo many requests as you noted shouldn't that be telling you something? Hell, give me the rights and I'll make it.... didn't think so.

[LongLeftFlank]

BFC makes the games they choose to make. They seem to make a satisfactory living doing it. If they wanted to chase dollars or numbers of players, they'd make totally different games -- shooters or pure tank on tank Battlezone stuff.

They have no interest in doing Vietnam or WWII Pacific or WWI -- the primary reason seems to be that they prefer designing games in which AFV vs AFV combat figures prominently -- not in every scenario sure, but on average. AFVs are basically support weapons in jungle environments, and AFV vs AFV combat is rare (not unheard of, rare). The engine is at its strongest in depicting AFV combat, although it actually doesn't do too badly with infantry if the scenario designers are skilled.

Don't expect that answer will satisfy you, but there it is.

[GI Jas]

No, you did. I just think there should be more Nam based games that's all. Their story needs to be told just like D-Day, Korea, etc..

[LongLeftFlank]

I hear you -- and based on my success in making CMSF perform in hyper-dense urban environments, I don't personally think that 2-3 canopy jungle and thickets are at all impossible for this engine to handle. The trick IMHO is to treat it like buildings -- i.e. a tile (as opposed to cluster of tree objects) that goes transparent when a friendly/spotted unit is "inside".

I also think BFC is going to have to confront this kind of dense vegetation sooner rather than later once they get into the gloomy pine forests of the Ardennes, Hurtgenwald, etc.

All peripheral to the reasons BFC will probably not do Vietnam or PTO, but still interesting.

[MG TOW]

No, you did. I just think there should be more Nam based games that's all. Their story needs to be told just like D-Day, Korea, etc..

it may not be totally appropriate to bring this up in another games forum But TOW Korea may be a more suitable game to adapt for vietnam since it already has the same helicopters the marines used in the early part of that war anyways. No palm trees or M-14, but that could be modded with little effort. Suited for infantry heavy battles. But of course you have to like the engine and many don't.

[vincere]

But of course you have to like the engine and many don't.

Not tempted by the game engine compared to CM; but the operational dimension raise some curiosity.

[LongLeftFlank]

I was just admiring some of the screenies from TOW Korea. I gather it's a separate developer and a separate engine, but it looks like CMBN is starting to approach TOW's production values.

[GI Jas]

But TOW Korea may be a more suitable game to adapt for vietnam since it already has the same helicopters the marines used in the early part of that war anyways. No palm trees or M-14, but that could be modded with little effort. Suited for infantry heavy battles. But of course you have to like the engine and many don't.

Already have it on pre-order. Own all of the TOW games and love the engine although game options have been limited in past releases Korea and it's new strategy mode could be what I have been waiting for in the series.

[vincere]

Already have it on pre-order. Own all of the TOW games and love the engine although game options have been limited in past releases Korea and it's new strategy mode could be what I have been waiting for in the series.

TOW is real time only, right?

[roadiemullet]

Man I would love an Arab-Israeli combat mission! In terms of units the conflict has a mint showcase of equipment from ww2 up to modern day. It would be so cool if you could mix n match SU-100s against Centurions, Shermans against t-72's ... Syrian PZivs against Merkava's! If its all about AFVs facing off what more could you want?

Of course its only a pipe dream, but if I was to win Euromillions BFC would definitely be getting an email for a bespoke combat mission to be made. A million quid or two would help them overcome any worries about making it. Think im gna get a lottery ticket this weekend...