Task Force Thunder second mission

[donnieitaly]

I'm replaying this for about the x zillioneth time (The campaign that is.)

Can someone tell me how I can destroy the Special Forces base with only mortars and track driven artillery?

I mean I could huff and puff...

[Holman]

I usually reserve most of my artillery and all of my air for that target, then roll in with Strykers and smoke along the back side of the base when it's good and suppressed.

[donnieitaly]

Well there's only 81mm mortars and two helicopters.

[Praetori]

Well there's only 81mm mortars and two helicopters.

I actually sailed through that mission with 0 dead.

Put all your firepower on that last house, and I mean everything and the kitchensink. Use the helis and as many javelins as you've got and then chose a short side to enter with 1 or 2 squads. Slowly and methodical, top floors first.

Keep throwing all the firepower you have on the reminder of the building and they'll eventually break.

[Lethaface]

What Praetori said,

You have a lot of firepower. Use it (from distance)!

[Erwin]

If you know where the enemy is that's great. But, a bit gamey...

[donnieitaly]

I'm not quite sure what you're suggesting here. There are three targets. The Barracks, the Airbase and the Special Forces.

I have set up to attack the Barracks first, by blowing holes in the walls, then I thought I'd take the Airbase and since I still don't see how I can DESTROY the SF base I figured I'd just ignore it and get a minor victory.

Can I really DESTROY that building (not just clear it) with two helos and some mortars?

Oh, and I'm not quite sue what you mean by "that last house" or <sorry!> for that matter how I assault "top floor first".

Thanks :-)

[Praetori]

I'm not quite sure what you're suggesting here. There are three targets. The Barracks, the Airbase and the Special Forces.

I have set up to attack the Barracks first, by blowing holes in the walls, then I thought I'd take the Airbase and since I still don't see how I can DESTROY the SF base I figured I'd just ignore it and get a minor victory.

Can I really DESTROY that building (not just clear it) with two helos and some mortars?

Oh, and I'm not quite sue what you mean by "that last house" or <sorry!> for that matter how I assault "top floor first".

Thanks :-)

The SF building. Put every barrel available (smallarms, mgs, cannons, choppers, rockets, arty and javelins) on full auto and hammer it while you move up your assault elements. Keep shooting until the hostiles break. Then occupy it.

I went through the entire scenario guns blazing. Its a military airfield and not a civilian city so every house, every window is a legit target. Fire and movement, fire and movement.

[donnieitaly]

Gotcha - will try it tomorrow.

Thanks :-)

[Praetori]

Gotcha - will try it tomorrow.

Thanks :-)

Np. Tell us how it goes.

[donnieitaly]

Well.....

Disappointing -but almost certainly due to the execution and not the advice. I got a Minor US victory and in the past I've done better my way.

In brief I took the barracks first (I was playing late at night in silence as my wife was asleep and I figured if it didn't go well I just wouldn't "Save". But I took them no problem.)

Then I moved over to the SF base. I fired almost everything at it. (I wanted to keep some troops and some javelins back for the third target.) I put javelins on to it. (Which I found very damaging to the building taking about two to knock in a floor - can't believe the US army would allow a missile costing $z0000000000 to be fired at a house!) 120 mm mortars which I found fairly ineffective, Apaches - like wise not so effective and the vehicle mounted arty. (Very useful.) Oh and the Mk 19s. My favourite weapon.

Now I am not sure what one has to do to the building to count as "destroyed" and I only managed to collapse one section. I did in the end however occupy and search the entire structure although at game end I received NO CREDIT for that! (I thought it was an either/or option. Destroy or search.)

Those Special Forces people are tough *******s! They moved into the centre "square" of the building and had to be dug out by my assaulting infantry.

And here is probably <g> where I made my biggest error. I attacked from two short ends with four squads. By the time I'd pushed them into the middle where the SF were we had a little friendly fire. 16 dead and wounded caused by one squad grenading the other.

Ooops.

Now I did kill them all and left a unit behind to criss cross the building for the rest of the game so that every floor was searched. So why no credit?

At this point I got lazy and moved over to the airbase HQ (oh I play turn based btw.) completely forgetting that I hadn't cleared any of the random buildings. Two of my vehicles were RPG'd and another ten or so of my troops were killed/wounded. Lazy and stupid.

The assault on the HQ went fine with no casualties but then the game ran on about another seven minutes waiting for me to do something more. Well I'd hit all three target and wasn't about to got chasing IEDs so I just waited.

So all in all it was a failure. Perhaps it's my lack of knowledge of what constitutes "destroyed" but perhaps I'm just not a very good player!

But I enjoyed it :-)

[Boche]

javs are used against structures and fortified positions all the time in Afghanistan you should also try to do this in the Thunder campaign, since you have tons of javs to use.

[Praetori]

Those Special Forces people are tough *******s! They moved into the centre "square" of the building and had to be dug out by my assaulting infantry.

And here is probably <g> where I made my biggest error. I attacked from two short ends with four squads. By the time I'd pushed them into the middle where the SF were we had a little friendly fire. 16 dead and wounded caused by one squad grenading the other.

Ooops.

That mission is tough. Another advice when it comes to indoor fighting.

Try to work with only one team on the move at once for a building (this is especially important in WeGo).

Always take the top floors as early as possible and move the rest of the unit in behind the lead elements (Think of a snake, the head moves and the body follows). Work in one direction only, don't zig-zag.

So first element-> top floor and assault the length of the building, when they are done, frag down but don't move.

Make a new assault element or move the previous one back and down one floor, rinse and repeat. The goal is to always have the height advantage and if possible force the hostiles out of the building for the cordoning forces to kill in the open.

By moving with one force at a time you lessen the risk of blue on blue and you can have your support units outside of the building fire away at floors and areas where you ain't. Walk the fire from support along the building in front of your units to suppress the hostiles until your assault elements can get into grenade range.

Choppers and arty are a big nono as soon as your assault elements start their entry, use them to max while forming up though.

Speed is not essential, continuous movement IS. Normal speed will do just fine with fire orders into the next section. If in doubt, pause and take good firing positions while letting the outside support do the work.

When it comes to the SF building you want to put your support elements at angles as to enable one unit to target two long sides of the building at once as well as to put some fire down the center "square". Again, work the fire from up to down. Re-select targets often to keep it enveloped in fire.

[donnieitaly]

That's good advice thanks, I may try it again in a few days.

One question though. With the outdoor firepower am I trying to flatten the building, smash in floors, or just keep their heads down?

As far as I can see Javelins, for example, don't actually kill SFs unless I can actually see them and target them. Is the fire I place on the building intended to destroy it totally or to drive the incumbents outside to be shot by my surrounding forces (I had Strykers with fields of fire all around btw.) If that is the case I can well see the point in entering in only on building so as to flush them through and out.

I had no idea CMSF was so "realistic" (sic) with regard to in house fighting.

Many thanks :-)

[Praetori]

That's good advice thanks, I may try it again in a few days.

One question though. With the outdoor firepower am I trying to flatten the building, smash in floors, or just keep their heads down?

As far as I can see Javelins, for example, don't actually kill SFs unless I can actually see them and target them. Is the fire I place on the building intended to destroy it totally or to drive the incumbents outside to be shot by my surrounding forces (I had Strykers with fields of fire all around btw.) If that is the case I can well see the point in entering in only on building so as to flush them through and out.

I had no idea CMSF was so "realistic" (sic) with regard to in house fighting.

Many thanks :-)

Flattening the SF building will be hard. The goal is to break the resistance and in this case it takes A LOT of firepower to do so.

The best scenario is if the hostiles in the building decide it's time to bugger out (which should be your objective in most cases when it comes to urban environments). It's much easier and safer to kill the enemy in open ground than to fight them indoors. Most western tech advantages are lost when the enemy is at an arms-length distance, the full auto and large caliber of the AKs are murder in confined spaces.

How the missions are scripted, or rather how the AI plan is laid out will govern most of their behavior though. And it seems in this mission there IS no "plan B" for these Syrian special forces (both in mind as well as in game mechanic AI plan sense).

They will stay and fight in that building unless you can convince their TAC AI otherwise (at which point they will break/panic and try to GTFO).

I remember playing that mission as one of my first in CMSF having just a few days earlier played a CMBB mission where I had flamethrowers. Oh how I missed them. But with the firepower given in that mission you can basically smoke floor by floor with cannon and HMG fire until the hostiles throw in the towel. That goes for each and every building in that scenario, just treat ANY resistance with the same courtesy as the SF building and you should be in the clear.

[rune]

Incorrect, as a matter of fact there are 5 AI plans for the Syrians, including the SF. it depends on which plan is picked, some are more likely to occur then others. How do I know? I made the scenario.

Rune

[Praetori]

Incorrect, as a matter of fact there are 5 AI plans for the Syrians, including the SF. it depends on which plan is picked, some are more likely to occur then others. How do I know? I made the scenario.

Rune

Oops. My bad then. I've only seen them leave the SF building once and that was after some 15mins of bombardment with everything I had.

Great mission by the way, I return to it ever so often but the IED at the gate really limits your options, and after running into it twice in a row (assuming it's always there) I haven't tried getting anything else through there except for a sniper team.

[DaveDash]

Based on my style of play, every time I do this mission, it's a choice of either taking unacceptable casualties or just ignoring the Special Forces building. I wouldn't mind having a go at this mission with a 4 hour time limit.

[Lethaface]

Good mission indeed, my favorite of the TF campaign. The last time I played it (long time ago), I got a total victory with minor casualties. However that was after several tons of ammunition went in that building and then the Syrians surrendered.

Assaulting it always gave me a lot of casualties.

With the new more accurate Apache Hydra´s it should be possible to flush it out a bit more easy.

[Lanzfeld]

A few questions here.

1. Rune, being that you created this mission (great work BTW) can you give any idea why so many people dont get credit for searching the entire SF building? I didnt have this problem but I read about it often in this mission.

2. I read above that we should get to the top floors and work our way down to take advantage of height. Is there an advantage in CMSF to shooting down a floor as opposed to shooting up? Does the game give the "higher" squad any advantage in spotting or firepower?