Erwin Posted September 14, 2010 Share Posted September 14, 2010 I vaguely recall hearing or reading this someplace. Anyone have any reference in the manuals? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 Don't thinks this is the case. BFC have always been against national traits. Indeed, I don't recall the Soviets having such a morale penalty. AFAIK they were only limited by the huge command delay, that often saw them roughly handled. Could be wrong on that, it's been a while. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 You ARE wrong Elmar : ) AFAIK BF for CMBB moved all the quality stats down one level for the Russians for the majority of the war. For a progammer its a neat fix but in game terms was far too much. The workaround is of course to increase the quality of the Russian troops to compensate. Unfortunately in QB's it is tricky. Also scenario designers who decide that Russian troops should be green effectively make them conscripts. I think that at the level CMBB is fought the fact the Russian officer corps were confused/incompetent and supply and control was iffy is irrelevant to the fact that both nations soldiers down at platoon level were equal in wanting to kill each other, And particularly on defence, there is no need to reduce the Soviets wholesale to conscripts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 Heh! I was beginning to doubt myself the moment I wrote it, hence the disclaimer. What you say certainly rings a bell. Still, I don't think I'm wrong on the US quality. In this CMx2 is a great leap forward, giving far greater control over ability and morale. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 You ARE wrong Elmar : ) AFAIK BF for CMBB moved all the quality stats down one level for the Russians for the majority of the war. This is the first time that I've heard anyone claim this. The only difference that I know of is that early war Soviets have command delays equal to one rank lower, but it has nothing to do with their fighting capability, morale or fitness. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 When you say "know" can you provide the link? Or is a matter of testing? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 Pg 133 of the PDF manaul QBs apply the experience setting (low/medium/high) appropriately to the various forces available.* For example, “high quality” Russian troops in 1941 will only be Regular. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 It says so in the manual. See the section 'Ostfront', subsection 'TacAI'. Mine is in Finnish, but I'll paraphrase: "Soviet forces are equal to Germans, in regards to command delay (when the units are of equal experience) starting on January 1944. Prior to that date, Soviet troops command delay is one level lower than a comparable German unit would have (eg. a Soviet 'regular' unit has an equal delay to a German 'green' unit)." Nowhere does it mention any other qualities than command delays being affected in this way. Quick Battles are a bit different, but even then a Regular unit is equal to a Regular unit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted September 16, 2010 Author Share Posted September 16, 2010 repeated message 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted September 16, 2010 Author Share Posted September 16, 2010 Wicky already quoted the manual: Pg 133 of the PDF manaul "QBs apply the experience setting (low/medium/high) appropriately to the various forces available.* For example, “high quality” Russian troops in 1941 will only be Regular." But what about the US in CMAK? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 That does not penalize anything. It only affects the choices you have available in a Quick Battle, but choosing conscript or green troops is not a penalty as of itself because they also come cheaper. Beside of that, quality can be set as unrestricted, which removes this aspect from QB's and have all the Elite troops you wanted. It's also nothing specific to do with one army or another. Eg. late war Germans will, in Quick Battles, have lower quality troops available than earlier in the war. But an early war Regular is the same as late war Regular, just like a German Regular is the same as a US or Italian Regular. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted September 16, 2010 Author Share Posted September 16, 2010 I see what you mean. It's one of those things I recall being discussed a great deal when CMBB came out, but it's all so long ago, and I don't have the CMBB manual to hand. I can't figure out where the similar concept came for CMAK either. I wonder if it was scenario designer advice rather than an actual game feature. Similarly, is there any info on the sandbag emplacements in CMAK regarding what defensive advantages if any they give? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 Sandbag emplacements in CMAK do not offer the kind of protection they normally would in real life. The reason for this is that units take into account the terrain type they are in when taking fire, and with sandbags the 'square' within the sandbags is open terrain. So a unit taking fire will think itself out in the open even though in reality they are fairly well protected from small arms fire. Yes, the sandbags do reduce the effectiveness of incoming fire (to what degree I don't know) but pour in enough and the defending unit will soon start running, usually towards certain death. Other disadvantages to sandbags is because they are a map-based feature, as opposed to trenches which are purchased items, you as a player have no control over where to place them outside of the scenario editor. Also, again because they are map-based, they are visible from the moment you view the map, even if they were placed in areas not seen from the opposing side's setup zone. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 I think the sandbag positions are best used for vehicles to give them a hull-down status. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted September 17, 2010 Author Share Posted September 17, 2010 Guys: Where in the manual does it say all this? Or, where do you get your info from? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 The manual certainly will not tell you that sandbags don't work as intended. You learn this from playing several games and observing how units function when deployed within them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.