Advice on new PC please

[Wally's World]

Having given up trying to solve my old PC's problems and since it's probably the motherboard that's had it, I've decided to purchase a new PC and would greatly appreciate any advice on the following choices:

Dual Core ($870 CAD) Choice 1

Gateway Dual Core Choice 1

WebID: 10070492

Mfr. Part Number: GT5028H

Processor Type AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Dual Core 64-Bit

Processor Speed 2.0GHz

RAM 1024MB (2 x 512MB) (Exp. To 4GB)

Hard Drive 250GB 7200RPM, 2MB Cache

Optical Drives DVD +/- 16X Multi-Format Double Layer

Graphics Card See The Features Section

Available Expansion Bays 2 x 3.5"

Available Expansion Slots 1 x PCI-E X16, 1 x PCI-E X1, 1 x PCI

Cache 2 x 512KB L2

Disk Drive No

Fax/Modem 56K ITU V.92

I/O Ports See The Features Section

Included Software See The Features Section

Monitor Included? Monitor Not Included

Network Card 10/100Mbps Ethernet LAN (RJ-45 Port)

Other Control Devices No

Preloaded Operating System Microsoft Windows XP Media Center 2005

Sound Card 6-Channel (5.1) AC'97 Audio

Speakers Amplified Stereo

System Bus 2000MHz

Warranty 1 Year Parts & Labour

FEATURES:

Graphics Card: NVIDIA GeForce 6100 GPU, Up To 128MB Shared Video Memory, PCI-Express (PCI-E X16) Slot Available

I/O Ports: 7 x USB 2.0, VGA External Connector, IEEE 1394, 2 x PS/2, (Keyboard & Mouse)

Dual Core ($850 CAD) Choice 2

Gateway Dual Core Choice 2

WebID: 10072976

Mfr. Part Number: GT5056H

Processor Type AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Dual Core 64-Bit

Processor Speed 2.0GHz

RAM 1024MB DDR 400MHz (PC3200) Exp. To 4GB

Hard Drive 250GB (7200 RPM, 2MB Cache)

Optical Drives DVD +/- 16x Multi-Format Double Layer

Graphics Card nVidia GeForce 6100 GPU

Available Expansion Bays 2 x 3.5", 1 x 5.25"

Available Expansion Slots 1 x PCI-E x16, 1 x PCI-E x1, 1 - PCI

Cache 2 x 512KB L2

Disk Drive No

Fax/Modem 56k ITU V.92 Ready

I/O Ports See The Features Section

Included Software See The Features Section

Monitor Included? Monitor Not Included

Network Card 10/100 Mbps Ethernet LAN (RJ-45 Port)

Other Control Devices Info Not Available

Preloaded Operating System MS Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005

Sound Card 6-Channel 5.1 AC'97 Audio

Speakers Amplified Stereo

System Bus 2000MHz

Warranty 1 Year Parts And Labour

FEATURES:

I/O Ports: 7 x USB 2.0 Ports (2 in front, 1 in Digital Media Manager, 4 in back), 1 x VGA External Connector, 3 x IEEE 1394 port (2 in front, 1 in back), 1 x Parallel Port, 2 x PS/2 Ports (Keyboard and Mouse)

I am looking a dual core AMD machine and plan to put in a BFG Geforce 7600GT OC 256MB PCI-E in either to replace the onboard 6100 video.

I use the PC mostly for gaming, but also for homework and word processing. Is a dual core the way to go? Or for gaming should I stick with single core? I want my new machine along with the 7600GT to be capable for a few years at least. :confused:

Any opinions are greatly appreciated.

[Redwolf]

Useless specs since they don't give the exact model of PSU and mainboard. Those can hurt you badly later when you need to change something. Same for harddrive, no model given, see below.

In particular, the PSU will probably not support a real graphics card. Same might be the case for the overall cooling of the case. It goes without saying that it will be loud.

Of course a dual-core AMD64 is a great processor, so the machine will be good as a starting point.

A harddrive with just 2 MB cache is guaranteed to be a piece of junk that will lose your data soon, and of course perform badly.

The 10/100 network card implies that the mainboard used is right out of the stone age. I didn't even know that you could buy a board with NVidia graphics onboard and no GbE.

Microsoft Windows sucks, too

[Schrullenhaft]

Both Gateway computers use the same Foxconn motherboard (C51GU01), which is in the uBTX format (which is a supposedly better cooling layout for the motherboard). I can't really tell much of a difference between the two computers here other than one case has 3 x 5.25" bays compared to the other with 2 x 5.25".

Both of those computers look like they would work fine for you for quite awhile. However as Redwolf pointed out the 300W power supply is a bit low on the wattage for supporting a GeForce 7600GT PCIe; though it might handle it, it has the potential for problems.

The Dual Core AMD64 CPUs aren't really benefitting many games at the moment since very few of them have been coded for multi-CPU setups. However now that the DualCore CPUs are available from both AMD and Intel, you may start to eventually see games coming out with multiprocessor support. For everyday use the DualCore CPUs will be handy when you're running several apps at one time since they won't have to be time-sliced as often to work on a single core CPU.

The motherboard is limited to the 10/100 Broadcom on-board NIC. For newer hardware you are seeing Gigabit NICs becoming more common for PCIe motherboards. This does signal that the motherboard manufacture was shaving the cost by just going with a 10/100. However it may not mean a whole lot if you're hooking up to 10/100 switches and routers (DSL/Cable), though Gigabit home network hardware should start to become more common.

Also as Redwolf pointed out, the 2Mb cache on the hard drive is an economy model. 8 & 16Mb caches are becoming much more common on larger hard drives. In fact Gateway offers Western Digital, Seagate and Hitachi 250Gb PATA hard drives for these computers. The Western Digital is the only one that offers a 2Mb cache; the others offer 8 and 16Mb. However you won't get a choice on this at the store and most likely it will have the Western Digital (WD2500BB).

The on-board audio should be sufficient also (Realtek ALC653 AC97), though many people may suggest going to a Creative Audigy 2 or 4. That shouldn't be necessary, though the dedicated sound card could require less processing power than the AC97 on-board audio. The trade-off (other than additional cost) is that there could be driver conflicts with the Creative software/drivers.

The computers sound fairly decent for a good price (especially considering the prices are in Canadian dollars). However the ideal is assembling your own computer (if you are confident in such an approach). That way you could get the best components. However it also tends to be a bit more expensive (since you're buying better hardware) then going the name-brand route. Also there's the question of warranty (though those aren't very long anymore either), which gets a bit more complex with individually purchased components.

[Wally's World]

Thanks to both of you for your replies.

Two more PC's to consider if you don't mind. I am trying to keep the price down as much as possible but with a decent gaming machine.

These two machines are called a 'gaming' system by the store. Since I have XP, I would get a system without an operating system.

Velocity EX3500+ $910 CAD or EX3800+ $1520 CAD

Xpress EX3500+ ($910 CAD)

* AMD Athlon64 3500+ Processor

* MSI K8N Neo4-F Motherboard

* 1GB (2x512MB) Kingston PC3200 DDR SDRAM

* Supercase 115 Black Mid Tower w/Front USB

* ATX 350W Power Supply

* Samsung 250GB 7200RPM SATA II Hard Drive

* Samsung 16x16 Dual Layer DVD-RW Drive

* Gigabyte Geforce 6600GT 128MB PCI-E w/TV-Out, DVI

* Onboard 8-Channel 7.1 Audio

* Onboard Gigabit Ethernet

* One Year Parts/Labour Warranty

Xpress EX3800+ ($1520 CAD)

* AMD Athlon64 3800+ Processor

* MSI K8N Neo4 SLI-FI Motherboard

* 2GB (2x1GB) Kingston PC3200 DDR SDRAM

* Thermaltake Tsunami Dream Black Mid Tower

* Enermax 535W SLI Power Supply

* Samsung 250GB 7200RPM SATA II Hard Drive

* Samsung 16x16 Dual Layer DVD-RW Drive

* eVGA/Leadtek Geforce 7800GT 256MB PCI-E/VIVO, DVI

* Onboard 8-Channel 7.1 Audio

* Onboard Gigabit Ethernet

* One Year Parts/Labour Warranty

Is the second one listed here worth the extra $600 CAD?

Many thanks again!

[ April 24, 2006, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: Wally's World ]

[Schrullenhaft]

The second computer does have a faster CPU, faster videocard, more memory, a name brand case (for what it's worth), a better power supply and the motherboard is an SLI (though you may not use that feature). I'd say it's reasonably worth the $600CAD more.

One caveat, though it may not be offered, is that the 7900GT is the latest videocard rather than the 7800GT. There's a few differences between the two that may or may not add up to much for you, but I don't know what the price difference would be. In the US I see about a US$10-40 difference in price between the two.

[Redwolf]

What Schrullenhaft said.

Obviously the last computer posted is the best one but it is mostly a rippoff. It is not clear from the description whether this is the 3800+ X2 dualcore (at 2.0 GHz) or the 3800+ single-core at 2.4 GHz, so I can't comment on that.

But the video card is not actually a good buy right now and uses more power than the 7900GT to boot.

The PSU is nice. I don't like MSI mainboards anymore either. The better audio is useless. PSU is a good brand.

Not really sure what to recommend. If you are comfortable with fiddling yourself I would buy the second-to-last and later upgrade it with a PSU of my choice, a 7900GT and maybe a dual-core CPU later when more games you run support it.

[Wally's World]

Thanks Schrullenhaft and Redwolf for your replies and good advice.

I have another techie question about hard drives. For the new machine, I want to install my old 60 GB hard drive as a slave alongside the new hard drive. Since the old drive is 4 years old, I am assuming it is a ATA-100 drive.

Should I purchase a SATA II hard drive or a ATA hard drive in order to be able to use my old drive as a slave to the new one? In other words, can a ATA-100 drive be a slave to a new SATA drive?

Thanks!

[Schrullenhaft]

Your primary drive can be PATA or SATA. You should still be able to use your PATA drive if your primary is SATA. Occasionally there's an issue with a PATA and a SATA drive in a system (usually on install, depending on the SATA controller on the motherboard). The best way around any issue like that is to install Windows on your SATA drive before installing the PATA drive.

So, yes, you can still use your PATA drive as a 'slave' with a SATA 'master' (though it technically isn't slaved to the SATA drive). The SATA will actually be set in the CMOS/BIOS as the 'boot' drive and all PATA drives will have drive letters beneath the SATA drive in Windows. Your current 60Gb drive could be set as 'master' on one PATA channel, while your DVD-RW is on another PATA channel as master (with whatever other optical/IDE drives as 'slaves').

Both of the MSI K8N Neo motherboards you have listed above can support 4 PATA drives. The K8N SLI-FI board can support SATA II (300 MB/s) compared to the K8N Neo4-F which supports only SATA I (150 MB/s), though there may only be a small performance difference between the two interfaces (despite the specs).

[ April 26, 2006, 02:53 PM: Message edited by: Schrullenhaft ]

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by Wally's World:

Thanks Schrullenhaft and Redwolf for your replies and good advice.

I have another techie question about hard drives. For the new machine, I want to install my old 60 GB hard drive as a slave alongside the new hard drive. Since the old drive is 4 years old, I am assuming it is a ATA-100 drive.

Should I purchase a SATA II hard drive or a ATA hard drive in order to be able to use my old drive as a slave to the new one? In other words, can a ATA-100 drive be a slave to a new SATA drive?

Thanks!

That works in all combinations and there's nothing to worry about.

You can also choose in the BIOS which drive you boot from, pretty much independently on how it is connected.

[Wally's World]

At the risk of wearing out my welcome with too many questions, my last questions are regarding dual core Athlons.

I will either get a Athlon 64 3700+ CPU with 1MB cache;

Or for an extra $120 CAD, get a Athlon 64 X2 3800+ with 2x512kb cache.

I noticed that the 3700+ runs at 2.2Ghz while the dual core 3800+ runs at 2.0Ghz.

Is it worth paying the extra money for dual core even though the dual CPU's separately run a bit slower than the 3700+ and there's really no games out right now to take advantage of the dual core?

Or would it be a good investment for the future since some claim games will take advantage of dual core CPU's?

Once again, many thanks for your really informing comments.

[ April 27, 2006, 12:57 PM: Message edited by: Wally's World ]