What is AI logic of using antipersonnel (HE/TERMO) ammo for RPG?

[Alex]

What is AI logic of using HE rockets for RPG?

One question is interesting to me:

I play CMSF already 2 years but and now not all clear for me. Syrian forces (like a marines) have multipurpose RPGs (RPG-7, RPG-29, SWAM), and this weapon have not only AT but also antipersonnel (HE or TERMO) grenades. But I can't understand logic of using this ammo type by AI.

If I give order to attack enemy infantry on open ground to my squad with RPG-7, at most time they will use AT grenade (HEAT) but not AP (HE - OG-7V), and some times they do more than one shot by using AT even if they got AP.

Also I see, that enemy AI(at it self) not use RPG to attack infantry at OPEN ground (AI use RPG against enemy INF only in buildings), but I don't understand why if they have AP(HE/TERMO) ammo?

And one more:

HE grenade(OG-7V) for RPG-7 have great ballistic, and can hit targets at big distances (far than AT grenades, 400-700m against 150-350m), and this HE grenade (OG-7V) can kill some lite vehicles (lite or not armored)*, but AI , when target is far, will use this OG-7V grenade only after he will use all AT grenades, and this is not very logical.

* I remember one battle, where my RPG-7(by OG-7V) killed BRDM-2(by one shot) from 550m distance.

Maybe some one of developers can answer?

[Alan8325]

From my experience, the Marines equipped with the SMAW will rarely attack enemy infantry using the SMAW on their own, preferring to switch to the M-16. When the enemy is in a building and I order the SMAW team to target the enemy or area target the building, they use the SMAW and usually seem to use either HEDP or HEAT first, then Thermo. I do not know what factors determine which type of round they use. While we are on this topic, I haven't noticed any increased effectiveness of Thermo rounds vs. infantry in buildings compared to HEDP. Perhaps it has to go through the window but I keep hitting the wall or something.

As for the RPG HE rockets, I agree that they should be used first against infantry in the open. Usually my RPG gunners open up on their own against either vehicles or troops in buildings though, expending their HEAT rounds first. I do not know whether HEAT is more effective against troops in buildings compared to HE (OG-7v), but I would imagine it is which is why the AI uses it first.

[Alex]

So... No comment from BFC. Look like, at last time they don't watch forum.

To bad, this is not a unimportant moment, and it should be correct in patches, especial when in NATO module will add a new multipurpose RPG CarlGustav.

[MikeyD]

I had similar question back during the Marine Beta. The difficulty is the thermobaric exploison animation is not significantly different enough for me to easily spot it being use. Most often I just look down in the menu and discover its no longer there.

Thermobaric rounds are designed pretty specifically for creating overpressure in enclosed structures. So the AI will fire everything BUT thermo at open ground, and may even refuse to fire it when you're down to your last round! Because on open ground its 'just' an explosion. No schrapnel, no armor piercing capability. Just 'boom'.

[ChrisND]

So... No comment from BFC. Look like, at last time they don't watch forum.

I assure you that every word written in this forum is read.

Except for the Peng Challenge Threads, which only the terminally deranged dare enter.

[Alex]

2 MikeyD

Yes it's bad, that TERMO explosive don't have own clear animation. But TERMO also good working on infantry in foxholes, and in any case it more dangerous to INF than AT (AT also don't give many fragmentations, and killzone lower than at TERMO).

I'm very many play at Red side and I know clear, that RPG-7 don't use HE like primary to hit enemy infantry at open ground, and don't looks like TERMO grenades also use primary.

I assure you that every word written in this forum is read.

Good to hear, but it's not mean that BFC hear some suggestions and problems...

[bodkin]

I've noticed RPG crews will use up all their AT ammo against enemy infantry in buildings before switching to HE is this right?

[Alex]

Yes RPG crews use AT grenades against infantry in buildings, but it's right, because HE ammo not effective against buildings, but most effective in this situation TERMO ammo (but has I noticed, RPG crews also don't use TERMO at first).

[Alan8325]

Yesterday I was playing the Rahadnak Valley Search scenario that comes with the Marines module and I had what looked like an HE RPG round take out an entire 4-man fireteam of mine. The team was in a building with everyone standing in front of one window and only one of the Marines was firing M-16 bursts at the RPG gunner, who was in a trench. Clearly not sufficiently suppressed, the RPG gunner fired off an HE round, which turns out to have been his last after reviewing the map, that killed or injured all four men. It must have gone through the window to do that kind of damage.

[Alex]

Bye the way it's interesting moment!

Has I sad before HE grenade OG-7V have excellent ballistic (and very deadly), and in real life good RPG shooter can get grenade straight into the window from big distance (I hear stories about 500m), interesting in CMSF shooter trying get into the window, or just in building wall?

[bodkin]

Yes RPG crews use AT grenades against infantry in buildings, but it's right, because HE ammo not effective against buildings, but most effective in this situation TERMO ammo (but has I noticed, RPG crews also don't use TERMO at first).

However I observed that the AT rounds were only supressing the defenders in the building, it was the HE round that eventually caused casualties.

[Alex]

So no answer, like always.

[Alex]

I did some tests:

Syrian infantry (squad with RPG-7) attack enemy INF at open ground.

1. Conscript start attack ("order attack") at 450m: AT; AT; AP; AP; AT; AT.

1.1. Conscript start attack ("order attack") at 350m: AT; AT; AP; AT; AP; AT.

2. Regulars start attack ("order attack") at 450m: AT; AT; AT; AP; AT; AP.

3. Veterans start attack ("order attack") at 450m: AT; AT; AT; AP; AT; AP.

Some time syrians loose contact with enemy, and some time may see how RPG shooter load AP grenade, but after that shot AT.

So as you can see AP grenades not primary ammo to attack infantry, and not clear how exactly AI make deassign to use AP grenades.

Also I made test where my syrians RPG-7 attack enemy in buildings, and AI at first used all AT, and only after that use AP.

P.S. Interesting, that OG-7V have excellent ballistic, but syrians can't hit anything by it, but AT grenades (with badly ballistic) goes close to the enemy.

AT- antitank HEAT (PG-7VL)

AP - antipersonnel HE (OG-7V)

For me this is strange situation.