Missing This Feature. Extreme FOW. I Hope It Is Back In CM:N!

[Lanzfeld]

I'm sorry Joch, but I don't think that's actually correct.

Objects in the field of view are either unseen or fully ID-ed. I've never seen the in-between state (indicated by a "?" according to you) for a vehicle that was still visible but as yet unidentified. Nor do I believe that sound contacts have been implemented.

It's been my experience that the "?" marker only relates to previously seen units currently not being spotted, for whatever reason.

^^^^ This fits to what I am seeing as well.

[Sgt Joch]

I'm sorry Joch, but I don't think that's actually correct.

Objects in the field of view are either unseen or fully ID-ed. I've never seen the in-between state (indicated by a "?" according to you) for a vehicle that was still visible but as yet unidentified. Nor do I believe that sound contacts have been implemented.ted/unidentified units which are moving, but not identified by your units. I spend a lot of time on reconnaissance in my scenarios

It's been my experience that the "?" marker only relates to previously seen units currently not being spotted, for whatever reason.

There are no sound contacts in CMSF, that is not implemented.

In CMSF, the losenge "?" icons represent unspotted or previously spotted units. I have seen them move representing unspotted/unidentified units which are moving, but not identified by your units. If you watch closely, you will see that they become a deeper shade of BLUE or RED before they are identified. I spend a lot of time on reconnaissance in my scenarios.

I just rechecked some of my ongoing CMBB and CMSF scenarios and I am now convinced there is little difference between CMx1 and CMSF.

If you click on a generic icon in CMBB, you find out what is probably there, even something as detailed as "Guards 44h rifle" whereas in CMSF, the generic "?" icons give you no information whatsoever. CMSF actually gives you greater fog of war since you have no idea what is there until the unit is identified.

Yes, misidentification would ne nice, but it is not required for fog of war.

Check it out for yourself and come back with specific examples we can look at if you disagree.

[Lanzfeld]

Joch I cant get to my CMSF computer right now but are you sure you are playing "iron" mode? I cannot ever recall seeing a "?" icon over anything but a spotted unit that has gone out of LOS. I have never seen a spotted unit remain in sight with a "?" icon over it. (ie.. spotted but not identified.)

Maybe I am wrong as I look forward to investigating this.

[sfhand]

FWIW, I have seen the question mark icon without a prior a indentification icon while playing in iron mode. I have replayed these turns many times to see if there is a very brief moment when the unit is identified prior to becoming a question mark and have never been able to discover such a moment.

[Lee]

I agree that mis-identification of unit types should be in CMII: Normandy, this is an important part of tactical combat.

[souldierz]

Sounds like the misidentify would be a cool feature to have.It is realistic and friendly fire is a result of it as well as fooling the commander on what the real threat is,plenty of proof for that in the real world, but I have no experience with this in previous CM titles and not sure how it effects game play.

In CMSF my air support sometimes has a real identification problem.Ive had Cobras do gun runs on my tanks and infantry.I would sit there in amazement and watch as an Abrams or Challenger or even Infantry gets pelted accurately by Cobra cannon fire as he mistakes them for enemy.I also had a few air strikes that targeted and destroyed some Humvee's in other missions and they weren't even close to the zone where air support was requested to hit.

In Iron mode the enemies suspected path will be followed by a ? icon if they are not fully Identified or seen.For one enemy squad on the move 3 separate ? icons can appear on the route they took leaving you to think there might be more enemy teams there, instead of just the one.From my experience, the second one of the enemy appear on the map, the type of squad can be known(MG,Rifle,C2,Recon and so on), but it's not known on how many enemies are in the squad, nor does all the enemy in that squad show up in plain view on the map.In some cases a heavy ? icon can appear over a building and also have a ? icon appear behind it and the info given would make you believe there's enemy there, but in some case's the building is empty because the enemy left.

The only misidentify of enemy I see in CMSF is possibly Misidentifying the enemy location if they are on the move and friendly fire from support assets.I would support fully the feature of being unable to detect what kind of infantry it is until you get closer to them.As it stands now I can ID a Artillery Spotter from far out and immediately understand what the threat is,which makes me take action right away against that specific enemy.Unless it was very obvious like a man sitting on a stone with binos and a radio or a sniper rifle,I think it should be harder to tell what type of unit it is.

[TheVulture]

You do sometimes get new '?' contacts for units you have never spotted. Example from the scenario I'm currently playing: my men are taking a lot of MG fire from unspotted MGs. After some time, a '?' appears on one of the closer rooftops (about 300m+ distance). It isn't until a few minutes after that that I first spot the actual HMG team on the roof. Don't know whether that is a sound contact or just eventually spotting the location of all those tracer rounds / seeing the muzzle flash. AIUI it can't be spotting the unit for a very short time so that you never see the unit icon; spotting is only updated every few seconds, so a unit that is sen at all has to be shown as visible for at least a few seconds.

CMSF lacks the 'unspotted generic types' of CMx1, where you know you've seen a tank, and where it is, but have no idea what kind of tank it is. But you know it is a tank rather than an infantry squad, and can see it move.

Full ID's (of the 1st platoon, 2nd squad, German rifle '44 type) were pretty hard to get on extreme fog of war; you could go through an entire battle without firmly IDing a single infantry unit. And the 'full IDs' (where the tank goes from 'Tiger ?' to 'Tiger') could sometimes be wrong - one of those memorably turned out to be an elefant, and I never knew until the AAR screen).

[__Yossarian0815[jby]]

I think it would be great if the current spotting system system in CMSF would differentiate between infantry? and vehicle?. I´m assuming that sound spotting is currently simulated under the hood.

[Sgt Joch]

Joch I cant get to my CMSF computer right now but are you sure you are playing "iron" mode? I cannot ever recall seeing a "?" icon over anything but a spotted unit that has gone out of LOS. I have never seen a spotted unit remain in sight with a "?" icon over it. (ie.. spotted but not identified.)

Maybe I am wrong as I look forward to investigating this.

yes, it works the same in CMx1 (extreme FOW) and CMSF (Iron). You can get a "?" appearing in CMSF or a generic unit icon in CMx1 for a previously unspotted unit as well as for a spotted unit which becomes unspotted.

If you recheck a CMBB game carefully, you will see many generic unit icons (i.e. soviet star, iron cross) showing previously unspotted units. They are much less noticeable than in CMSF, but are there.

[Battlefront.com]

Sorry I'm coming to this late.

Yup, there is a lot we would like to do in terms of enemy spotting info. It's just a matter of time before we get most of the things discussed here into the game. But as some have pointed out, CM:SF does have some uncertainty in it. Not as much as we would like, but it isn't as exact as some people think it is.

Steve