Brit Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 [update] The update is available now. [/update] If you are having trouble with the washout bug, then I'd like players to try this: when the washout bug happens, go to the "Preferences" window. Scroll to the bottom of the window. You'll see two checkboxes. They way "(Debug) Show Range Lines" and "(Debug) Show Radar Lines". If you turn off one or both of them, what happens to the washout bug? Fixes/Changes in 1.01.2818 - Border Violation bug: The AI should not detect units inside transports - The AI won't complain about submarine border violations unless he actually saw the submarine - "Sightings" list now shows the unit-name, rather than just "Sighted" - Fixed some problems with the AI that caused it to consume lots of memory on large maps - Adjusted ship/submarine combat balances - - Some of the changes - - - Reduced Battleship->Submarine power, Increased Battleship->Ship power - - - Slightly reduced Cruisers->submarines power, Increased Cruiser->Aircraft power, reduced the cost of cruisers by 7% - - - Increased Destroyers->Submarines power, reduced the cost of destroyers by 10% - - The end result is that ships have more defined roles - - - Destroyers->Submarines (good), Destroyers->Ships (fair), Destroyers->TacticalAircraft (fair) - - - Cruisers->Submarines (fair), Cruisers->Ships (fair-good), Cruisers->TacticalAircraft (good) - - - Battleships->Submarines (poor), Battleships->Ships (good), Battleships->TacticalAircraft (fair/poor) - Satellites move faster now - Fixed problem with Battleship bombardment (can't target) and artillery bombardment (can't target some enemies) - Added a 'random' option to Game Setup > Land Density - Added a 'random' option to Game Setup > City/Resource density - Cities could see submarines out to a range of 60. Changed this - cities cannot see submarines by default anymore - Fixed a bug in the Map Editor that was switching to the wrong player - Added some debug settings to the Preferences Window to help track-down the washout-bug - Fixed a crash that occurs when you change the "View As" setting - Added a flag to the map-tooltip (important when hovering over a yellow-diamond and you can't see the unit) - Fixed a bug that caused aircraft unit-groups to ignore field orders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balor Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 Had washout bug while it was an airplanes turn and also tested for a ship, clicked off range lines and it fixed the problem. The check box for radar lines did nothing to fix the washout, then again I do not have any radars and not sure how else to test it. P.S Keep up the great work Brit. It is great to see someone who cares about his program. I am tired of people/companies not supporting thier software be it in forums and/or via updates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaburke61 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Hey Brit, Started a new game (actually 2) with the newest version, and each of them crash a little into the game (last one on turn 12). It aborts to desktop, I restart the game, reload the autosave and it crashes again as soon as I submit my turn. As I have not had any crash problems before this, I hadn't been noticing what you want (if anything) sent to you. Thanks for the help, Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brit Posted January 12, 2010 Author Share Posted January 12, 2010 Had washout bug while it was an airplanes turn and also tested for a ship, clicked off range lines and it fixed the problem. The check box for radar lines did nothing to fix the washout, then again I do not have any radars and not sure how else to test it. Okay. Good to know. I thought it had something to do with drawing lines on the map. P.S Keep up the great work Brit. It is great to see someone who cares about his program. I am tired of people/companies not supporting thier software be it in forums and/or via updates. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brit Posted January 12, 2010 Author Share Posted January 12, 2010 Hey Brit, Started a new game (actually 2) with the newest version, and each of them crash a little into the game (last one on turn 12). It aborts to desktop, I restart the game, reload the autosave and it crashes again as soon as I submit my turn. As I have not had any crash problems before this, I hadn't been noticing what you want (if anything) sent to you. Thanks for the help, Kevin You're right. Will put out an update ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innocence Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 P.S Keep up the great work Brit. It is great to see someone who cares about his program. I am tired of people/companies not supporting thier software be it in forums and/or via updates.Amen Generally I've had much better experience with support from indie programmers than larger companies, for example Taleworlds (Mount & Blade), Sean O'Connor (Slay!) and Slitherine (Conquest). The only larger developer who show genuine dedication is Blizzard (WarCraft, StarCraft, Diablo etc.), though few support their games as badly as 4Head Studios/JoWood (The Guild) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brit Posted January 12, 2010 Author Share Posted January 12, 2010 The update is available now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drrowley Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 same file number? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brit Posted January 12, 2010 Author Share Posted January 12, 2010 same file number? The version number is different. It's 1.01.2863, but the only difference is the one bug fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaver Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 The new update really speeded up the processing on my netbook! Great job Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutthroat Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 [update] The update is available now. [/update] - Adjusted ship/submarine combat balances - - Some of the changes - - - Reduced Battleship->Submarine power, Increased Battleship->Ship power - - - Slightly reduced Cruisers->submarines power, Increased Cruiser->Aircraft power, reduced the cost of cruisers by 7% - - - Increased Destroyers->Submarines power, reduced the cost of destroyers by 10% - - The end result is that ships have more defined roles - - - Destroyers->Submarines (good), Destroyers->Ships (fair), Destroyers->TacticalAircraft (fair) - - - Cruisers->Submarines (fair), Cruisers->Ships (fair-good), Cruisers->TacticalAircraft (good) - - - Battleships->Submarines (poor), Battleships->Ships (good), Battleships->TacticalAircraft (fair/poor) Does the Unit Combat Simulator now reflect the adjusted ship/submarine combat balances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brit Posted January 15, 2010 Author Share Posted January 15, 2010 Does the Unit Combat Simulator now reflect the adjusted ship/submarine combat balances? Yes, the combat simulator uses whatever combat values are in the system. Is the submarine->battleship combat weaker than you had expected? I was sort of debating that when I was adjusting the values. When I pit a "Battleship (Class 2)" (costs 290 total research) against a "Submarine (Class 3)" (costs 190 total research), the numbers I was coming up with when I was running the combat simulator was that submarines win 46% of the time against battleships. That's less than half. However, submarines also cost half as much as battleships. From a cost-effectiveness standpoint, it's bad to send a battleship against a submarine because, even though battleships are more likely to win, they'll either get sunk (you'll lose an expensive battleship from a submarine that costs half as much), or the battleship will get so damaged that you'll have to send it home for repairs (28% chance of taking 5+ damage). There's only a 17% chance that the battleship will take 3 or less damage. Historically, battleships probably ran-away from submarines, which is a smart thing to do. I could probably adjust these numbers more in favor of submarines, particularly if I setup units to act more intelligently (i.e. battleships should run-away from submarines). Under the current system, I was a little wary of making submarines more powerful against battleships, since they cost half as much to build. By the way, here's a list of the total research costs for the units - this is so you can compare units of a similar technology level. Battleship (Class 3) takes a lot more research than Submarine (Class 3), so you shouldn't compare their combat numbers. Dreadnought - Total Research: 30 Battleship (Class 1) - Total Research: 120 Battleship (Class 2) - Total Research: 290 Battleship (Class 3) - Total Research: 565 Battleship (Class 4) - Total Research: 865 Submarine (Class 1) - Total Research: 30 Submarine (Class 2) - Total Research: 95 Submarine (Class 3) - Total Research: 190 Submarine (Class 4) - Total Research: 460 Submarine (Class 5) - Total Research: 735 There will probably be periods of time when the Battleship (Class 1) (120 Research) will be fighting against Submarine (Class 3), which is skewed even more towards submarine victory than my calculation above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutthroat Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 Yes, you should definitely make battleships weaker yet against submarines. To balance things out destroyers could be even stronger against submarines. Battleship captains feared submarines while submarine commanders feared and ran away from destroyers. There is only one case in history where a battleship sank a sub and it was by ramming. It is just weird to see a battleship sink a submarine. Cruisers were also useless against submarines during the first half of the 20th century. After WWII with missiles and smart torpedoes cruisers gained ASW capability. It would be cool if it could be programmed to so the relationship changes with upgrades. However, battleships even today remain susceptible to subs because of their older vintage machinery causes them to have an extremely loud acoustic signature (10 times comparably sized CV) making them easy targets for submarines. As far as costs both subs and DDs cost a much smaller fraction of what a BB does. I realize that this is more of an abstract game and historical accuracy is not the ultimate goal, but I think making subs able to take down capital ships while being easy prey for DDs and perhaps some aircraft would make the strategy and tactics much more interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott_WAR Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 I agree, BB's should fear subs. Naval combat is really close to rock, paper, scissors. Yes subs cost half as much as BB's, but are really only effective against large shpis. Cruisers should beat them,.....barely(as noted in the above post cruisers gained ASW ability over time),..and destroyers should outright own them. However the BB' should beat everything BUT subs, justifying their greater cost. BB's are killed by air power and subs. BB's kill everything else. Cruisers are killed by BB's and subs. BBs kill air power and destroyers and transports. Destroyers are killed by all except subs. Destroyers are made to kill subs. Subs kill BB's outright, beat cruisers by a little, and are owned by destoyers. Aircraft carriers should be sitting ducks,....until their aircraft are brought into consideration. Of course these are broad generalizations, for example.....modern cruisers come in different versions. Guided missle cruisers have decent anti air and strong anti ship capabilities. Standard cruisers are extremely strong against air targets, while still maintaining some anti ship capability. Both have decent ASW (anti sub warfare) capabilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly's Heros Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 Agreed, subs rule the waters without ASW support. EOS does not model subs well with respect to BBs and CAs. Even in today's world, subs are very much feared by surface vessels without ASW support. A level 3 sub against a level 1 or 2 surface opponent should be invincible. Think about what a modern day sub could do to WW2 vintage ships. They would never be able to find it and the sub could kill them from miles away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brit Posted January 16, 2010 Author Share Posted January 16, 2010 Yes, you should definitely make battleships weaker yet against submarines... Thanks for the feedback, everyone. It's always appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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