Can MOUT Troops Use Demo On Tanks?

[MikeyD]

3. Likewise I cannot get them to throw out of a buildings

Yup, I was about to post that too. I think that's why my demo charges against tanks test failed. And my one attempt at getting them to exit the building before attacking resulted in a lot of dead pixeltruppen and a lot of unscratched tanks

[YankeeDog]

Hmmm... I wonder if that's an intentional "feature" on the part of BFC. As I previously mentioned, a Demo charge isn't really designed for throwing, and it also isn't designed for defeating armor -- it really has to detonate in contact with the hull, or underneath it, to have any of doing something more than throwing a track. Worth noting that they generally do not have contact fuses, either -- timed only.

So IRL, it would probably be a short-range, underhand toss onto the engine deck or under the belly, at most. Tossing one over a wall or through a window and accomplishing this would be tricky at best. I'm not saying it would be impossible, just pretty darn difficult in most situations.

So BFC may have actually limited how and when Demos can be "thrown" deliberately.

[Lanzfeld]

YankeeDog,

All that makes sense to me. As stated before, these are NOT satchel charges or bags of explosives but demo kits that, as you say, need to be placed rather specifically to be effective.

That being said, before CM:N comes out I hope they look at this because satchel charges can be throw out windows, over walls, ect...

[BFCElvis]

More testing with US engineers.

Very hard to get them to throw those charges.

Cool. This is one of the reasons I wanted to try using the same set up you were because in my testing of this in the last week engineers freely throw them very quickly (judging from my screen shot it took this squad 22 seconds) so I was puzzled at why you weren't seeing the same thing. So here is a brief walk through of what I did to get the screen shots.

I played hot seat. First I moved everyone into position. I moved the target tank near a door of a building facing away from the building. I then gave it a narrow covered arc and hide command. In the meantime I moved the squad into the building. Every other unit on the board I had face away and hide and covered arc and whatever I could to keep them out of what I was doing.

Then I did exactly what I used to do in CMx1. I issued the squad a "Fast" movement order to the vehicle and also ordered a "Target" command. Boom.

I understand that seeing a set up like this in an actual CM battle is zero. I just wanted to see if and when the infantry would close assault the vehicle with whatever it was carrying (in this case demo charges and grenades). Doing this kind of move in an actual battle has had a very very low success rate for me. Just any running in the open will get you killed fast in CMSF.

[Gpig]

I've seen engineers throw a demo charge ONCE. And they were in a building when they did it. Small Gain MkII (?) was the scenario. And a big ol' tank rolled up to the farmhouse where I had some engineers. After about 30 seconds of the turn, they lobbed a DEMO charge that erased that tank. Pretty spectacular, I have to say.

That was also a few patches ago . . .

Gpig

[souldierz]

I got a question for you guys testing this situation.

Is it a single designated guy who throws the satchel, or does it vary and any soldier can throw it?

For example, Maybe only the SL can throw it and he needs to be in the right spot for his LOS like an AT guy in order to execute the move or use the weapon.

[Lanzfeld]

I have seen multiple guys throw from same squad.

[BFCElvis]

Yeah. Multiple guys will throw them.

I tested the scenario Lanzfeld has been using and got them to throw the demos in just under 30 seconds. What you need to do to make it happen is issue both a movement and target order. He is a screen shot from the scenario he sent me. I have a save game file in case anyone wants it.

[Lanzfeld]

Thanks Elvis.

Were able to get them to throw over walls?

Also...did you use quick or fast?

[MikeyD]

Ordering them to throw demo charges over walls at an enemy might be problematic because they'll just interpret as a blast-thru-wall command. That was the primary failing of my troops-in-building test. They'd just blow out the wall then the unscathed tank woud hose 'em with mg fire through the open facade!

[Lanzfeld]

I never used the blast command to try to tank out a tank.

It is funny how just a change in technique makes all the difference. I never charged the tank to get these guys to do it (at least never noticed that I charged the tank). I always got my test group up NEXT to the tank in hopes that they would take the oportunity to lob a charge themselves.

[Thomm]

I never used the blast command to try to tank out a tank.

Did anybody use the Blast command?

That would make no sense, would it?

Best regards,

Thomm

[BFCElvis]

I never used the blast command to try to tank out a tank.

It is funny how just a change in technique makes all the difference. I never charged the tank to get these guys to do it (at least never noticed that I charged the tank). I always got my test group up NEXT to the tank in hopes that they would take the oportunity to lob a charge themselves.

Add a target command to that and you are set.

I did not try to lob over a wall. Like MikeD I would guess you are just gonna blow up a wall. I can try it tonight though because my saved game is right after I issued orders but before they are processed so I can easily change them.

[Lanzfeld]

I dont think they would blast a wall without a blast command. If fact I know they wont. I tried fighting a tank across a wall for hours using only target commands.

Elvis, Do you run into the actual tank action spot while targeting or do you run into the spot next to the tank while targeting?

[BFCElvis]

I target the tank and then select my movement to the vehicle. Ya know the blue symbol with the down arrow designating that you can't actually climb in a vehicle? I think for the screen shot above I selected that knowing I wouldn't board the tank but it would effectively run me up to it. Wouldn't swear to that. I remember trying to do that but forget if it accepted the order and I just selected an area next to the tank.

[Lanzfeld]

Testing more....

I am having success with covered arcs because most of the time my guys cant see the tank until after they come around the corner running at the tank in WEGO.

[Lanzfeld]

This seems to work okay.

It leads me to just a little gripe though (big shocker!!!)

When my guys come around a building to attack I really cant believe how quickly the tank sees them (even from behind) and turns to attack. These buttoned T-62's are green and there is NO delay at all. Dont you think even 3 or 4 seconds to react should be in there to simulate a commander looking at a map or tscanning the front or talking to a crewmember in the tank?

[Lanzfeld]

Ha!

More testing (Steve, listening???) and I found out that yes, engineers will use demo readily on tanks but MOUT troops that have demo charges are VERY hesitant to use them under the same circumstances. This is why I initially had an issue and created this thread. Maybe MOUT troops can be adjusted to act the same as the engineers in this aspect?

or.....

Maybe the MOUT troops want to save their demo for walls. Maybe it is an entirly different type of demo.