Campaigns - How do they work?

[phil stanbridge]

I've got some questions with reference to the campaigns - I am most of the way through the British campaign for the second time but this time round I appear to have less time, and less artillery/air assets within each mission. Can this be the case?

So far I have not seen any Tornado/Harrier air support and I have only had access to 155mm artillery in one mission (I think!). I have been able to use 81mm in most missions however.

Also, I have not been reading in the briefings about problems with supply this time round. I remember a really tough couple of missions in the first campaign because of problems with supply. Yet this has not been mentioned so far, although my artillery seems somewhat less significant than it was in the first campaign. Put it like this, I have barely been able to use it.

So how do these things work? I know they are classed as 'semi' dynamic so can things like mission duration and assets change dynamically per mission?

[phil stanbridge]

Just to add, I got my arse kicked hard once again. I had 121 KIA over the course of the campaign (better than 169 before) but I only lost 5 vehicles and 2 tanks. The Syrians lost 850 KIA with nearly half that missing/wounded. 37 tanks destroyed and 50 odd vehicles. But it was considered a Major Blue defeat. Why? I won the majority of the missions with two being major victories where the Syrians surrendered. There will obviously be losses attributed to the blue side. Considering that was front line in your face stuff, I don't think I did too bad.

[Blackcat]

I hope someone answers your question about how campaigns work regarding artillery, I'd like to know too.

Re getting a major defeat in your seconf attempt at the Bitish campaign, what were the circumstances of it ending? This happened to me when I smashed the Syrians in every mission except the Police Station and then lost the bigger Syrian Attack Mission (I can't remember the name, but I posted on here for asking for hints). Once I replayed that one mission and got victory I was avle to go on an win a total victory in the campaign.

On the other gand if you got to the final mission, won it and still got an overall major defeat I can't help. The manpower kill ratios look a little low, but not such that should justify a malor defeat in my view. 121 KIA definately looks a bit high though.

[Blackcat]

One more thing on the campaigns issue. I have abandoned my attempt at the Marines campaign.

I thought I was doing pretty well, very few casualties and total victories upto and including the infamous Pooh battle. In the next battle some of the squads of, what appear to be my core team, got a bit beaten up and one tank took damage and ran out of main gun ammo, still got a total victory.

Then came the 2km long map with ATGMs everywhere. Not only did I not get any replacements I didn't get any sort of ammo re-supply. So I had a tank with no ammo as well as a couple of HUMVEEs also without any (really would any one be commited to an attack without ammunition?) and very, very limited artillery shells. Anyway, I got through that, just, with very low casulties and a tactical victory, though I didn't take any of the objectives.

In the next battle I have two squads, one with four men and one with two and two depleted HQ units all from my recce/CAAT elements, 2 50 cal armed Humvees and one of the small LAVs. I am up for a challenge but that force couldn't hold.

The point re how campaigns work is that I had kept my recce units out of the fight since the Pooh battle. They still hadn't been re-supplied or received any replacements.

Knowing what I now know I could go back and fight the Marine Campaign again and this time make sure the guys who turn up in the trucks take on more of the fighting and keep my recce elements safe and be more sparing with the use of artillery. However, that strikes me as "gamey" and I still don't know if it would do much good and, anyway, I can't be bothered to play the whole thing again, yet.

[phil stanbridge]

I hope someone answers your question about how campaigns work regarding artillery, I'd like to know too.

Re getting a major defeat in your seconf attempt at the Bitish campaign, what were the circumstances of it ending? ... 121 KIA definately looks a bit high though.

I didn't win every battle, and neither did I finish every mission to the time limit. I don't really understand the time limits. Sometimes they finish promptly, sometimes they give you 10 minutes or so extra, but again, this seems to vary per campaign? The last two missions I did win however, and one was a total victory, but both ended with the Syrians surrendering. I only took 10 KIA in both missions too.

I do agree that the KIA is probably too high considering the campaigns duration. Maybe that is all it is. But it is still less than 10% casualties compared to the Syrians.

I thought I was doing pretty well, very few casualties and total victories upto and including the infamous Pooh battle. In the next battle some of the squads of, what appear to be my core team, got a bit beaten up and one tank took damage and ran out of main gun ammo, still got a total victory.

Then came the 2km long map with ATGMs everywhere. Not only did I not get any replacements I didn't get any sort of ammo re-supply. So I had a tank with no ammo as well as a couple of HUMVEEs also without any (really would any one be commited to an attack without ammunition?) and very, very limited artillery shells. Anyway, I got through that, just, with very low casulties and a tactical victory, though I didn't take any of the objectives.

In the next battle I have two squads, one with four men and one with two and two depleted HQ units all from my recce/CAAT elements, 2 50 cal armed Humvees and one of the small LAVs. I am up for a challenge but that force couldn't hold.

The point re how campaigns work is that I had kept my recce units out of the fight since the Pooh battle. They still hadn't been re-supplied or received any replacements.

Knowing what I now know I could go back and fight the Marine Campaign again and this time make sure the guys who turn up in the trucks take on more of the fighting and keep my recce elements safe and be more sparing with the use of artillery. However, that strikes me as "gamey" and I still don't know if it would do much good and, anyway, I can't be bothered to play the whole thing again, yet.

I have the same issues with my campaigns. I think the key is to know which units are core and which are auxillary, but I do not understand how ammunition and replacements are worked out. I had one mission in my Brit campaign where I had a full complement of warriors and infantry carriers, but the scimitars were out of HE because I had used it all up in the mission prior. So there I was stuck with my scimitars with only 7.62mm ammunition. Not a lot of use! Plus I had a Challenger 2 with no main gun which was carried through missions.

Plus the issues with artillery. I tried an experiment where I didn't use my complement of 81mm in one mission to see if it carried forward, and I can't be sure but I don't think it was available. Plus the issues with air support. I didn't see Harrier or Tornado support for the entire campaign I'm positive. Very odd! I'd love to find out how this works.

[George MC]

Can't help with the specifics discussed above. Campaigns use a script that the campaign designer creates. It's a small txt file that defines the battle parameters such as ammo resupply, manpower replenishment, vehicle recovery etc.

The actual victory conditions are set in the battle scenario editor by the battle designer (Mind a campaign is a series of scenarios that are tied together by this campiagn txt file and brought together in the scenario editor). This ties in with the campaign txt file in that where you go after playing that battle in the campaign is decided in the campaign txt file and again the designer can set this as they see fit e.g. to go onto the next action you have to get a major victory anything less would have you kicked out. So in theory you could 'win' a scenario only to find yourself booted out of the campiagn if that is how the campaign designer sets the conditons in the txt file. Likewise you could go onto the next action in the scenario if you get anything above a draw.

As the core units are tracked then if you lose lot's of stuff you will find yourself at some point facing insurmountable odds and the scenario to all intents and purposes will be unwinnable. In any campaign force preservation is key. I guess the trick is to design scenarios that are still playable with a rediced force - that can mean if the player does well in earlier actions some scenarios can be walkovers as the scenario deisgner may have designed the action based on the fact that the player might not have done well before. Swings and roundabouts I guess

Hope this helps.

Cheers fur noo

George

[phil stanbridge]

Thanks George appreciate the feedback. Where in the Highlands are you out of interest? (If you don't mind us knowing of course).

So in theory if I have this right, if you do particularly bad in a campaign, it can finish early. I think I discovered this in the marines campaign. I was pushed right back to the beach almost before I started to make inroads.

Do you know how assets are handled? Artillery and air support in particular. Does it accumulate or is it allocated on a per mission quota?

[George MC]

Thanks George appreciate the feedback. Where in the Highlands are you out of interest? (If you don't mind us knowing of course).

So in theory if I have this right, if you do particularly bad in a campaign, it can finish early. I think I discovered this in the marines campaign. I was pushed right back to the beach almost before I started to make inroads.

Do you know how assets are handled? Artillery and air support in particular. Does it accumulate or is it allocated on a per mission quota?

Hi Phil

He! Just clocked you're on the west coast - I'm up by Aviemore.

Re your query about assets - these are allocated by the scenario designer but in the case of arty/mortar loadouts that will be handled by the campaign txt file. If I mind correctly (although not 100% sure) you can't carry the arty loadouts over to the next action. But to be totally sure I'd have to double check that one. Maybe someone knows for sure?

[MikeyD]

I'm not entirely sure, but I believe the campaign workers were aware of depletion of resources problem if artillery had been included among 'core units'. So I believe the artillery was added as new additional units each scenario to make sure they would still be around in later battle. At least I think that's how it was done. I can't think of a reason why you'd be getting less artillery than before.