Yankee Halftracks Used By Germans?

[Paul AU]

Of course not.

I just watched a 1943 American propaganda movie telling us how great and noble the Russians were in WWII. For two hours. Rare enough in itself.

A few scenes were baffling, documentary-wise.

I’m sure I saw (I re-watched it a few times) German infantry attacking through the snow, supported by American half-tracks. The standard boxy M3 half-track. Definitely not the ‘Hanomag’ SdKfz 251 or any variant thereof.

What could the Germans have had, (ever) that could look like that?

This was purportedly a German advance in 1942/3. Yes, I understand is was a propaganda film. Yet the footage was real.

(You think I’ve mistaken Russians for Germans. Maybe, but no, I don’t think so, the helmet shapes and MG 42s are a give-away).

[JoMac]

Just U.S. dressed as Germans, along with U.S. HTs, and hence U.S. propoganda.

[Paul AU]

I didn't think of that, because the rest of the vision was so authentic (if highly edited).

I dunno. Not sure that's the answer.

[Lieste]

Without seeing the HT in question it is difficult to give a definite answer, but there are two Half-Tracks that have superficially similar running gear that the Germans are known to have used.

The Maultier Ford truck, in both armoured and soft skin versions had four road wheels in Horstman suspension with an idler and sprocket.

They also converted two of the captured French Half-Tracks into armoured infantry carriers - the Leichte Schutzenpanzer U304(f), has four small road wheels in two bogies suspended below a heavy bar, and very large idler and sprocket. This one is very like the SdKfz 250.

The Mittlere Schutzenpanzerwagen S307(f), has a similar configuration but is much heavier, being an equivalent to the SdKfz 251. This is also known as the Somua MCG/MCL.

Although AFAICT neither of the French HT saw action in the east, it is possible that captured equipment and prisoners were used in Europe to make a propaganda film if it dates from later than mid 1944?

OTOH, the German Ford HT did see extensive use, and was a fairly standard looking truck when not armoured, or looked boxy and M3-ish in it's armoured ammunition carrier/MRL versions. I am not sure it was ever converted into an armoured APC though.

Finally, you shouldn't discount captured Soviet equipment - lend lease trucks were just as popular with the Germans as the original Russian users...

[Sergei]

Let's keep in mind that we're talking times before the Internet, before television and all that. If there was a film of actual German halftracks in Russia, who would have filmed it? The Russians? Sure that's a possibility, but if it was real action, I doubt the cameraman would have stayed there after the barrage and the subsequent assault and made it back so Russians could spread it the physical film reel to their Allies, including USA. And if it was filmed by the Germans for their own propaganda, how would it get to USA? Through neutral countries maybe, but it is unlikely that copies of many such reels would have been available in quantity in USA. Supposing the film in question was made after the German declaration of war to USA, it is possible that older German propaganda reels were available, but the makers of the film decided to use other material. At the end of the day, the intended audience wouldn't know the difference.

Of course it would help if Paul told the name, year etc. of the said film. And was it a drama movie? I've seen one Hollywood movie made in '42 or '43 about the struggle in one Soviet village against the evil Krauts, I wonder if it's the same.

[JasonC]

The first US lend lease M2 halftracks reached Russia in late 1942. Significant numbers made it by the end of the following year. It would be quite a stretch for US HTs to be delivered from the ports to units, trained up on, make it to the front, get captured, and be put back into use on the German side, all before the end of the winter season over the 1942-3 winter. But over the 1943-44 winter is another story, and there would have been time for that.

The other explanations are superficially more plausible...

[Tero]

Winter combat footage with Germans using M3's and MG-42's could mean the footage was filmed in the Western Front during the Ardennes fighting.

If the documentary in guestion is in the Why We Fight series it is available in Youtube so please direct us to the pertinent section for second opinions.

[John Kettler]

Paul AU,

According to this thread, the Germans did use some captured U.S. halftracks in 1944. http://boards.history.com/topic/World-War-Ii/American-M4-Halftrack/6147

Am certain they also had captured jeeps, M8 and M20 ACs, having seen pics of all three.

This site says U.S. halftracks were captured at Kasserine and used by the Germans.

http://home.comcast.net/~hlparmy/m16/

According to this book review, 10 PD was especially fond of U.S. halftracks.

http://www.ipmslondon.ca/old%20site/ipmslondon.tripod.com/armourreviews/id26.html

Regards,

John Kettler

[Task]

The Germans indeed did utilize a lot of captured equipment from many nations.