Ammo Quality for Serians

[HetzerII]

Hi, I have a question about ammo quality in the red tanks in CMSF. Because they are Syrian is the ammunition much worse than the Russians use? If so, how much worse is it? Is there any variable or option that influences ammo quality in the editor? Thanks for the info.

[ScubaSam]

I believe if you change the quality of troop's equipment AFTER selecting/adding them in the editor, it only affects the relative effectiveness of it e.g. their accuracy. This might be attributed to different qualities of ammunition (new vs old, for example).

If you change the equipment setting BEFORE selecting/adding the troops, you actually affect what weapons/vehicles they'll take with them.

[MikeyD]

I suppose the theory may be if the Syrians restocked their 125mm stockpiles after the Lebanon conflict (1980s). That might imply the BM-22 round but would more likely be the steel dart export BM-17 round. Specific ammo types are represented in the game but its all maddengly 'under the hood'. I've been assuming (based on nothing, really) that older Syrian T72s were using the tungsten core BM15 projectile. Except the T72M1V TURMS-T and T90 which would get a modern round. But like I said, that's just me making assumptions.

Here's a cool Russian ammo site:

http://warfare.ru/?catid=337&linkid=2448

and a 125mm gun ammo encyclopedia

http://en.allexperts.com/e/0/125_mm_smoothbore_rounds.htm

[Damian90]

3BM-15 and 3BM-17 will be basic rounds for T-72M's and T-72M1's (also with Kontakt-1 ERA).

T-72M1W* (with kontakt-5) and T-72M1W with TURMS-T FCS can be equiped with 3BM-22 maybe, but maybe also with 3BM-42, but I highly doubt in that, and if even yes, still al this ammo is far under any capability to perforate frontal armor of western tanks even in close range.

T-62's and T-62M's can use 3BM-9, 3BM-12 and 3BM-15 with sabot scalled down to 115mm. There are also such ammo like 3BM-3 and 3BM-6.

T-54B's, T-55A's and T-55M's use 3BM-8 and 3BM-25, also full calliber BR-412B and BR-412D.

Ammo penetration values and estimated protection for many types of tanks are here.

http://collinsj.tripod.com/protect.htm

*over west Russian tanks with ERA are designated i.e. T-72M1V.

[Damian90]

Note, some armor estimation were not updated and seems to be overestimated like in Leopard 2A5S/Strv122, T-84U and Merkava Mk.4A/B, also some tanks can be underestimated. Still this is one of the most reliabale sources we have.

[HetzerII]

Why no official statements from BFC? I mean i dont just wanna know what people think might be in game or not, i want to know it exactly.

[Combatintman]

Ok - I'm only guessing here but for what its worth ...

In terms of researching for the game and the modules, BF are reliant on what data they can find. I suspect that open source material on knowing exactly which rounds the Syrians have purchased is pretty thin on the ground. Therefore in the absence of that detail they will have taken a pragmatic approach and said 'what rounds can this platform fire?' Having done that (and this is the guesswork bit) they will have taken out the higher end rounds unless there was a documented source stating that the round had been purchased by Syria.

[MarkEzra]

Interesting question Bump

[MikeyD]

BFC did place the early production gill-armored T72M below the T55 in the vehicle quality list. I think they assumed a lot of negatives about early T72 as a fighting platform. The steel dart export BM-17 round may have been one of the strikes against the early T72.