Panzergrenadiers

[nbracco]

Hello everybody, I've played some missions that involve panzer units and grenadiers mounted on halftracks. the objective is to take a position heavily guarded by the enemy. I can't succed!

should I send the halftracks once all of the enemy's heavye guns have been put out? where should I disembark the troops: close to the enemy position?

I really don't know what to do when I have this troops.

[Dave H]

Hello everybody, I've played some missions that involve panzer units and grenadiers mounted on halftracks. the objective is to take a position heavily guarded by the enemy. I can't succed!

should I send the halftracks once all of the enemy's heavye guns have been put out? where should I disembark the troops: close to the enemy position?

I really don't know what to do when I have this troops.

Your halftracks are for transporting your men to within walking distance of the Soviet position. You will lose them all plus your infantry if you drive right up to the enemy position. Halftracks are fatally allergic to AT rifles, heavy machine guns, light AA guns, hand grenades, Molotov cocktails, demolition charges, mortars and artillery. That's not even mentioning the Soviet armor that will ALL kill German halftracks with ease.

Unload your men as close to the enemy position as you can manage while keeping the halftracks out of sight. Your panzergrenadiers will have to walk the rest of the way just like regular infantry, but they will thank you for not getting them roasted in a burning halftrack. :eek:

[stoat]

Unsurprisingly, Dave H is right. Caution is the watchword when you're given vehicles that can violently explode when exposed to .50 cal fire. Halftracks allow you to advance infantry faster than they would be able to move themselves on foot, and they also offer protection from long range small arms and MMG fire, as well as carrying MGs that can be useful in support. The most important thing is getting your infantry to the fight in one piece. Infantry in or on vehicles have their fate tied directly to the fortunes of that vehicle. When I have halftracks in my force, I generally use them to deliver their charges to a covered location in front of where I believe the enemy lines are. The other way I use halftracks are to rush a platoon to a contested area where all existing threats have been exposed.

[DavidFields]

I absolutely agee with David H....at least in game terms. There has been umpteen theads on this issue, but I think even in historical terms Halftracks were not assault vehicles.

What is difficult to understand, I think, is that driving through a village, having even 10mm of armor was spectacular against local, hunting rifle, attacks.

But once a major battle is enjoined? I keep HT in the back, to clean up near the end, or as mobile but fragile MG nests.

[Vark]

The main advantage of halftracks can only be truly appreciated if a system like CM Campaigns had got off the ground. They allow infantry to keep up and support armoured attacks, which is vital in maintaining the operational tempo of such operations. In CMBB terms they can be aggressively used only against light forces, where as Rankorian has suggested they can be devastating. In the convoy protection/counter ambush scenario, "A Deadly affair" the Pzgr platoon, in their 251's can mount a left flanking move to take the partisan held village. Once there they can be used to support their respective squads with their MG fire, as they assault the houses.

My only true assault against a company position was using them in conjunction with a 158mm smoke mission, they stormed in, dropped their infantry and chewed up the defences. In reality, thirteen halftracks racing into smoke would have resulted in complete confusion but CM is not 'realistic'

[Der Alte Fritz]

You should watch the “panzer grenadier training film 1944” a four part film. Used to be on You Tube.

The main point to note is that SPW are not committed until the enemy has lost its supporting armour and guns. They were definitely used against light opposition only, against flanks or in pursuit. They seem to have used smoke quite freely from their own vehicles to provide cover - something you cannot do in CMBB, just like the Russian tanks do not have access to smoke pots. Have a look at George McCs Peiper series to see just what you can accomplish with SPW. Available from www.blowtorchscenarios.com. I fought a long four battle operation in this series using SPW beating off early war Russian infantry and dodging their tanks. Great stuff where you had to watch your ammo expenditure of your SPWs.

[Vark]

DAF, I wanted to finish my post with the link, but the new improved, ie crappy, YouTube has pulled the clips. One thing also that CM campaigns would have shown, and SP III does, is the advantage of having a radio in each halftrack, your platoons suddenly gain an tactical/operational responsiveness that ordinary infantry, in this period, do not possess.

Final point, the effectiveness of the AT rifle in CM is overated both for its hit rate and PK. I'm gaming a quick battle as Russian defenders gainst a German mechanised probe, one of my supporting AT rifles was targeting a 251 at 550 metres. It had a first round hit chance of 38% and a poor chance to destroy the target, seemed reasonable, in CM terms this meant the 251 moved 30m was hit two times, the crew were shocked and unable to provide fire support. Not bad for a weapon considered obsolete by the early war!

So with the halftracks organic advantages denuded and its disadvantages increased, by the game system the safest bet is to use them very carefully.

[nbracco]

I used to move my tanks and SPW together towards the enemy defences but this never succeded. So, I'll use my halftracks with caution. Another question: what should I do with the halftracks once it's load of infatry has disembarked? Hide them and keep them out of sight?

[dieseltaylor]

Tsk!

Think through this a bit. Depending on the size of map or terrain it is possible to use them for bringing other weapons to an interesting area. Or making your opponent believe you are doing it : )

Hopefully towards game end they can actually be sheeting and suppressing some broken infantry.

However regrettably most CM games are played on smallish maps where your transports could die in which case hiding them or even driving them off-board would be sensible if it means avoiding giving your opponent kill points.

Rarely do people pay a lot for transport unless it is a very big map.

[Joachim]

CMBB, Mar' 45. Vet/Crack Soviets vs Reg/Vet/Crack GE.

Soviets do have a few ATRs, some DSHk 12.7mm, many MMGs, some 37mm preferring remaining stealthy. a few RPGs with AT teams, some sappers, some SMG troops. 2 M17s. 82mm, 120mm FOs. 76mm IG, 57mm ATG.

T34/85 and ISU 122 are mostly kept turret down due to 6-10 JPzIV/70 in perfect overwatch position.

HTs were a PITA. They drove to within 50m of Soviet inf and usually survived. But there were more HTs than weapons that could kill them while remaining stealthy and thus alive.

Read: HTs with Übertanks in overwatch do work.

Other battles saw

a) HTs and Armor in village vs Soviet tanks in overwatch on front and flank. HTs die like flies.

HTs dropping inf near woods with a few SMG halfsquads and T34s in pursuit. PzGren die like flies. HTs are faster in reverse than T34 on hunt.

Here HTs did not work.

So it really depends on how you use HTs.

[Shmavis]

You should watch the “panzer grenadier training film 1944” a four part film. Used to be on You Tube.

The main point to note is that SPW are not committed until the enemy has lost its supporting armour and guns. They were definitely used against light opposition only, against flanks or in pursuit. They seem to have used smoke quite freely from their own vehicles to provide cover - something you cannot do in CMBB, just like the Russian tanks do not have access to smoke pots. Have a look at George McCs Peiper series to see just what you can accomplish with SPW. Available from www.blowtorchscenarios.com. I fought a long four battle operation in this series using SPW beating off early war Russian infantry and dodging their tanks. Great stuff where you had to watch your ammo expenditure of your SPWs.

I was playing one of George's scenarios when my old PC crapped itself and I had to take a break from CM. George's scenarios are epic, and the halftrack really gets a chance to shine in his "Peiper" series. My old rig used to cough and wheeze its way through processing a turn. Things should be different now!