Eden Smallwood Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 Ok, guys, something happened to mortar and off-map arty spotting since CMBB and I don't see it in the release notes, (or else it has always been different for allied vs axis?) What EXACTLY are the darn rules for when & how an arty guy can be indirectly spotted for by an HQ guy, (and which HQ's can work?). It's starting to seem to me that an HQ can spot for someone IF AND ONLY IF it's the commander of his exact squad (even the company or battalion HQ won't work!). And if it's an "independent" mortar/arty, then forget it! Well fine then, but then I certainly won't be filling out my QB points with indy mortar guys, since they're kinda useless if they can only provide direct line of sight fire, yeah? Something's changed, or else I've always been so deeply confused that I never noticed. Don't think so though... I don't see a "Confused-As-Heck-Smiley"; use your imagination. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeatEtr Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 It's the same as CMBB, all on-board mortar can be spotted by any HQ. All off-board(FOs) spotters are independent and don't need HQ, no HQs can spot for them either. Biggest difference IMO is the dust/smoke the arty kicks up, can have negative effect on the accuracy of the barrage. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 You need a command line from the spotting unit. If another HQ wanders by it might take over the mortar. Apart from that, any HQ will do. Dust is a major problem - if the mortar fires into the LOS line between HQ and target then LOS is blocked. No LOS - no barrage. So set up the mortars to the sides of the HQ, not straight behind it. Checking the wind direction helps, too. If you target an enemy gun, even the dust that gun kicks up might block LOS. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 And remember your HQ's can spot for motorised mortar carriers that the US and German have. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costard Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Don't forget that you can only "area fire" with on board mortars being spotted for by an HQ unit - the target line will be black, but an "area fire" target designation will show up under the pointer. If you try to target a unit it'll say "no LOS" - you have to target the ground nearby. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eden Smallwood Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 MeatEtr>It's the same as CMBB, all on-board mortar can be spotted by any HQ. "Any' !?!!!! This is where I have a problem. Since nobody has disagreed with your statement there, I'll guess that I have to physically provide a scenario turn where the above is false. But it's simply not the same as CMBB-- I have had numerous instances where the HQ had LOS, was not panicked or any other thing, the on-board mortar guy had a line-of-command to the HQ (the Fat-Red-Line), and yet... the mortar guy woud simply refuse to fire a single round. Well, that takes us back to square one-- I need to show you a scenario where it happens, right? Ok, that does it. Next time it happens I'll come back and post the saved game here. I understand what everyone else is saying, except maybe this was a little confusing: Joachim>if the mortar fires into the LOS line between HQ and target then LOS is blocked. No LOS - no barrage. So set up the mortars to the sides of the HQ, not straight behind it. You seem to be referring to two different things here-- do you mean the smoke from the mortar-tube itself blocking the HQ's LOS? Or do you mean the smoke from the round exploding in front of the target? In the former case, I would understand putting the mortar downwind from the HQ; in the latter, I would choose a "target" downwind from the actual foxhole or whatever. You seem to be mixing the two concepts... ? Thanks all... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeatEtr Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 I don't recall ever experiencing a situation with my mortar's not firing except if there's friendly forces near the target or if they're low on ammo. I'd love to see one of your examples though, run some tests in the QB and feel free to post something. What Joachim is getting at is to be aware of the positioning of the mortar in relation to the HQs LOS to the target. If your directly behind the HQ, then more rounds will either land short or even right on target but will block LOS. So to avoid this, not completely but to minimize this effect, put your mortars off to the sides of the HQ. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costard Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 In the former case, I would understand putting the mortar downwind from the HQ; in the latter, I would choose a "target" downwind from the actual foxhole or whatever. You seem to be mixing the two concepts... ? Thanks all... I would choose a target on the line between the mortar and the enemy unit: the dispersion of the mortar is mostly in this axis and the probability of an unsighted hit is higher. Aiming the mortar downwind of the target might be a happy coincidence in the aiming, and will lead to more rounds being fired as LOS to the HQ unit clears, but it's rounds on target that you're after - not rounds pumped out. I wonder, has anyone noticed a difference in the aimimg of the mortar slightly upwind? Or are the odds of a hit calculated independent of the ballistic path of the shell? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eden Smallwood Posted April 1, 2009 Author Share Posted April 1, 2009 I don't recall ever experiencing a situation with my mortar's not firing except if there's friendly forces near the target or if they're low on ammo. Sheesh! You guys don't know how lucky you've been. > I'd love to see one of your examples though, run some tests in the QB and feel free to post something. Ten-Four-Good-Buddy. (Ok, that was CB radio, not military, but it's the best I've got after a bottle of Chenin Blanc) >What Joachim is getting at is to be aware of the positioning of the mortar in relation to the HQs LOS to the target. Yes, Ok from your putting it another way, I totally see the point now-- it's about the HQ "line" and the mortar "line" being (mathematically) coincident. The more angle between the two, the less likely that errant rounds will block the HQ LOS. Got it. Finally. I'm not stupid, but sometimes I do a good impression. Back soon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eden Smallwood Posted April 9, 2009 Author Share Posted April 9, 2009 Ok, here's a saved game. I don't know if this is what I've been up against-- looking at it closely, this one seems like an honest 'bug', but we'll see what you guys say. As far as my original complaint in this thread, ISTR the spotter having the ability, in the command menu, to target something-- he just wouldn't. Whereas here, he doesn't even have that command! Hmm. I've saved the game in two places, once as a (hopefully) binary cmg file, and also zipped: www.lafn.org/~zeppenwolf/tmp/JustDoIt.cmg www.lafn.org/~zeppenwolf/tmp/JustDoIt.zip Open, look at the spotter--if you're like me, he doesn't even have a 'target' command on this turn. ( He recovers, in my original game, and he drops all his hard rain, but why not on this turn? ) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudhugger Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 If you are speaking of the 18 pdr. spotter, he seems to be caught at the end of a movement. Perhaps a cower from the night firing. All you have to do is place any kind of a movement order or even a pause order and then reclick on him and cancel it. You will then have the target orders come up. All this in the same turn; to be clear. By the way, off map artillery can't use the HQ to spot for them. They can fire into unsighted areas with a great delay and poor accuracy. The HQ does give his bonus to the spotter if he can see the target area. That night fighting is a bear. I ran your turn and one of the rifle squads targeted his own AT rifle team that was out in front. Hope this was helpful. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eden Smallwood Posted April 11, 2009 Author Share Posted April 11, 2009 If you are speaking of the 18 pdr. spotter... Yes, I was. Thanks for that "trick" if that's what it is, of slapping some sense into him. Nice to know, although I guess I'm almost disappointed-- I had a feeling that that was not the real reason I started this thread Anyway, thx. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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