Strange Bradley bug in "Firing Range" map

[akd]

Noticed this oddity while playing around with the mission "Firing Range 54 vehicle" (don't remember author right now). Whenever a Bradley targets an enemy tank with the TOW, the turret aligns on the target tank and the TOW launcher rotates outward and detaches from the 3D model, aiming at an off angle of about 15-20 degrees from the turret LOS to the target. When the missile launches, it either doesn't guide at all and flies off at the offset angle, or turns too late and misses. After the initial targeting that causes the launcher to get out of whack, the launcher remains in that position for all subsequent firings.

Green arrow points to missile in flight:

I tried adding a regular M2A3 to the map and get the same strange behavior. Maybe this has something to do with the Bradley being hull down on a fairly steep slope? Launcher unit is rotating sideways instead of tilting down, perhaps?

[Flanker15]

While I haven't seen the launcher seperate off like that I've often seen Bradleys fire their TOWs in the wrong direction and miss.

[cmfan]

I've had this bug happen to me as well. I keep meaning to report it, but I always forget. I'm not sure if it only happens in the firing range, or if it also appears elsewhere.

[Apocal]

It might be a result of them simulating hte TOW's minimum range of 200 meters. I was firing at targets about 190-240m out and the further targets were getting smacked pretty much dead on.

[stoex]

Seconded. Well, fifth'd as the case may be. This has happened to me on several occasions in-game and I, too, have been too lazy or forgetful to report. It is not a range issue for me, Apocal, as it seems to happen regardless of range, and I had not noticed the launcher offset rotation either. What I do see is that it seemingly happens only when LOS is tight or partial or otherwise limited, e.g. firing from hull down positions, through narrow slits between buildings or dense foliage, etc.

Also I have noticed that the problem persists for me as long as the Bradley in question does not move between shots. Once I have my Brad change position to get clearer LOS (when this problem has occurred), subsequent TOW firings work fine.

[Dietrich]

Maybe this has something to do with the Bradley being hull down on a fairly steep slope?

Speaking of this, has anyone every had the experience of a tank or other vehicle being unable to fire at a given target because its gun couldn't depress far enough, perhaps because it was hull-down but the hull was angled upward? I don't recall having this experience, so I'm wondering how realistically maximum depression is modeled.

In playing "Streets of Hama", once I told an Abrams of mine to target a building 90 degrees to its right at a distance of less than 10m, and it accordingly traverses the turret, angles the cannon down (the aimpoint of the Target order is technically at the base of the wall, but it's actually area fire), and blasts away.

[hcrof]

Elevation is not modelled. Apparently its so that you don't get into situations like the one you described and then get annoyed because its hard to work out whether the position you are in is suitable.

Having said that, I was able to shoot out the 8th floor of a building with a tank from 20m away (the gun didn't elevate far enough but the shell came out at right angles) so I personally think something should be done about it.

I think the game should be generous with the elevation/depression values but disallow the situation I mentioned. This would avoid frustration for the player but allow us to recreate the problems of bringing tanks into cities.

[akd]

Okay, I put the Bradley on a level surface and I'm pretty sure what's happening is the launcher itself is traversing when it should be elevating or depressing. The TOW launcher begins in a messed up position, clipping into the turret slightly at an angle (i.e. bore axis is not aligned with the turret). It stays so after targeting, but just moments before firing, right when it switches briefly from "aiming" to "elevating," the launcher pops outward slightly (into what looks like a normal position in relation to the turret).

On left is Bradley as it starts off. On right is moments after launch. The camera and turret position have not changed between the two, but the launcher itself has rotated to the left slightly. The target here is on the same plane as the Bradley.

[akd]

And, not surprisingly, if the Bradley is on a forward slope, the launcher turns the other way when "elevating":

[jjhouston]

Among several problems with the missile modelling, launching a TOW when the platform is at an angle of greater than 10 degrees is something that is not done. It won't happen in a Bradley. In fact, both the gunner and commander have bubble levels in their stations that indicate whether the vehicle is in position to fire. There are also bubble levels on the dismount tripod legs. Because when the gunner's sight picture is canted, the missile guidance computer is sends bad flight correction data to the missile.

[c3k]

akd, great find! I like how you experimented to find the relationship between yaw and pitch.

jjhouston; that's interesting information.

Thanks,

Ken