Mithel Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I intend to ask a few questions to clarify some of the documentation. My first question is what / how exactly does submarine "silent" vs "hunt" mode work? The manual states "Note that subs may also be selected to run silent. This allows non-raiding submarines to pass through convoy routes virtually undetected, and adds a certain degree of secrecy and stealth to the fog of war." However my experience has been that this does not "hide" or make subs "virtually undetected". My guess is that it just turns on or off "convoy hunting" and has no actual effect on the visibility of subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 This is one I've tested before. Subs in silent mode will pass through enemy warship occupied tiles unless the warship is a destroyer group as they(the DD group) will detect it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithel Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 What about air units spotting subs? Does hunt vs silent make a difference to air spotting? Also I'm guessing that air spotting is 100% accurate, it seems to me that air spotting of naval unit's (surface ships or subs) shouldn't be 100% reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Mithel you sound like a proponent of "The Search". Unfortunately, although getting better, SC is still somewhat lacking in that department. The again, as soon as the feature was incorporated there would likely be a group who would dislike the unpredictability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithel Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 Is "The Search" a proposed enhancement? Yes, I'm an advocate for a much more complex and realistic design but so far every WWII game / simulation I've seen has had serious flaws. SC2 is quite "fun" and I'm hoping to see it gradually evolve into a more realistic simulation. I would like to see air units have a "recon" mission. But I'd also like to see the number of unit types greatly expanded; far higher resolution maps and more units. But of course most of all I'd like to see a far more complex economic and production system. As a (game/simulation) software designer myself, I understand we must prioritize on what enhancements yield the greatest improvement for the least amount of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Mithel you understand that every layer of complexity is a detriment to AI play? Also, the lack of micro-management is what makes SC so attractive to a lot of people, myself included. If you've played SC1, the original, then you'll realize how far the design has come. Its very important to go slowly and assess how each change enables a more engrossing game without the addition of tedious mechanics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithel Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 Luckily(?) I never played SC1. I have to admit that AI play isn't very important to me as I only play human vs human. I'm not sure I agree that extra complexity is a disadvantage to the AI. Yes, it makes writing the AI a bit more difficult, but Hearts of Iron is significantly more complex yet weak AI is the least of it's troubles. I also realize the bulk of the players are going to prefer a simple and easy to play game, thus I completely agree that SC2 should carefully add features with a strong effort to avoid making the game more difficult for the more casual players. Hubert deserves strong credit for making such a simple/crude game system work surprisingly well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I intend to ask a few questions to clarify some of the documentation. My first question is what / how exactly does submarine "silent" vs "hunt" mode work? The manual states "Note that subs may also be selected to run silent. This allows non-raiding submarines to pass through convoy routes virtually undetected, and adds a certain degree of secrecy and stealth to the fog of war." However my experience has been that this does not "hide" or make subs "virtually undetected". My guess is that it just turns on or off "convoy hunting" and has no actual effect on the visibility of subs. On page 14 of the WaW Expansion Manual it pretty much gives you the full functionality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Hubert deserves strong credit for making such a simple/crude game system work surprisingly well! Thanks, always appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithel Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 My apologies, I had forgotten/missed the sub silent/hunt mode documentation in the WaW expansion manual. Thank you Hubert! As long as I'm throwing out praise, I'd like to say that while I may ask questions and I may disagree with a design idea here and there, Hubert, you have done an impressive job with such a simple system! (now I just want to beg you to make it more complex {grin} - especially the economic & production system) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I'm curious Mithel, in an H to H game (I'm of the same sentiment, AI doesn't count), how long do you think it should take the players to finish a game? Keep in mind that the next installment of SC will be global. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithel Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 My ideal simulation of WWII would play out about three times faster than real life (i.e. a couple years of actual play for a single game). But if we are talking SC2... then I'd say it should take about three to six months (real time). My friend and I have been playing our first game which we started on January 9th. We are currently on turn 95 (1946) (although the Axis had the game "won" according to the Allied player on about turn 30, I don't think it was really clear the Axis had won until turn 50 or so). We are playing PBEM (via e-mail at about two or three turns per day). I'd say the game played for us about two to three times faster than I would like. "Time" will depend greatly on whether you are playing via e-mail or network. I prefer via e-mail doing roughly a turn a day and I'd be happy with complexity that was significantly more than exists currently. I like to enjoy or even "savor" each turn, pondering without time pressure the strategy and options I have. One big feature I'd like to see is units being able to spend partial action points and then resume after another unit has moved (currently it's impossible for two units to swap locations in a single turn). Also I'd suggest that perhaps reinforcement should only take one action point per point of strength regained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithel Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 One reason I'd like better documentation is that in our game I attempted a "Diplomatic" strategy with Russia, but as far as we can tell, no matter how successful you are diplomatically against Russia they still enter the war in the summer of 1941. (and thus my German forces were caught completely unprepared but he made the mistake of slowly advancing into Germany so by the time my forces redeployed I blew him away with superior strength on my home turf) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithel Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 What is an "industrial center"? (in the editor) Can the supply / production value of towns and cities be individually customized? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arado234 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I still want him to get the rights to Third Reich and make it alot better.Ive played the mod.version and it is fun but one of the main things I liked about Third Reich is Armoured exploitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 I believe an IC is for enhanced supply and MPP production and yes you can customize to a certain extent all urban representations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithel Posted February 14, 2009 Author Share Posted February 14, 2009 Well, it's beyond me as to how you customize the supply and/or production value of an individual town, city, capital, etc. I've toyed around in the editor and I can't see anywhere that it can be adjusted. The only individual edit that can be made is the name of the town/city/resource. You can globally adjust the production of all resources of a particular type but I can't find any way to adjust an individual resource. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill101 Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Hi Mithel You're right, an individual resource cannot have its supply or production values changed without changing all the others belonging to the same country. Though there is a way round it if supply is based upon railroad connections - if you want to, you can have a resource that is unconnected to a railroad, and that will half its production and supply. But otherwise I think you'll have to find other ways to achieve the result you want, and amending the Industrial Modifier is the easiest way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithel Posted February 14, 2009 Author Share Posted February 14, 2009 Thanks Bill! That's a clever idea to create "half strength" resources. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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