US tech advantage and play balance

[Blashy]

I prefer to leave an unrealistic game where either side has a chance at defeating the other to MOD makers.

That is my biggest gripe with ETO, it does not give USA its proper historical production which makes it possible for Germany to defeat the Allies... 100% unrealistic.

[Big Dog]

Why can't the game provide both scenarios, a what-if for play balance and a historical version?

[scottsmm]

Big Dog,

The answer to that question is that Blashy believes it should be left up to MOD makers, and that nobody else on the team has said how they feel about this on this thread. In truth it would be nice to have both, but it appears that it doesn't look like it's going to happen unless you’re a MOD maker.

Blashy,

Your right after Dec 11, 1941 Germany had no chance to win the war outright. It's just that in terms of playing a game (which this is) it's fun if you could actually play either side, and have a chance of winning. That's just one reason why everybody here has liked SC1, all SC2 games, and now we’re hoping that it might just get incorporated into this game to make it even better then what it already is.

[Stitch]

I have spent the past week looking in-depth into this issue. Results after playing 3 games (40+ turns) from the Japanese side (and 1 from the Allied) make clear the a-historical nature of the tech element in SC:PT. If we want this to be historical, then why not just give actual tech awards during an appropriate time? It would be much fairer to the Japanese, at least they know how bad off they will be in '44.

The randomness of tech will really affect the game for Japan, from being a challenge when they research a decent amount of tech and the US doesn't fare normally as well, to just ridiculous when Japan isn't as lucky and the US researches normally.

Against the US AI, I sure haven't been that lucky, while I will give some extreme results for the US:

Infantry weapons tech from 0 to 2 in 3 turns.

Advanced aircraft from 2 to 5 in 5 turns. (I have the 2 save games to prove this)

Production tech from 2 to 4 in 4 turns.

Heavy tanks from 2 to 5 in 4 turns.

I will say the US results are not in the realm of impossibility, as I have been almost able to do this myself by overloading my tech investing. Still I think the US AI has been getting some "help", which perhaps it doesn't need.

I will reiterate my stand, either US tech needs to be nerfed, or Japanese tech needs a boost to make it playable from the Japan side, especially in PvP games.

[SeaMonkey]

I'm not so sure about all this as I reach March of 45 against this AI. I finally was able to get AT 2 and Naval tech 2 and upgrade my TACs as well as my CVs, the five that are left in ports.

With this, and the production Q of massed infantry ready for deployments, I was able to get some relief from those marauding BBs and jet carrying CVs. The Reds are being held in Manchuria(the greatest Japanese MPP base) from making too much progress.

It's still awhile till 46, so we'll see what happens, but this Allied AI isn't seemingly so omnipotent.

[SeaMonkey]

Just wanted to bring this thread up to my current turn of Z, Aug. 45. Have absorbed the first three A-bombs and Honshu and Kyushu are still Japanese.

The Reds have been stopped in Manchuria and a timely coordinated withdrawal from Southeast Asia has been successfully implemented, Singapore still holds.

I believe at this point I will gain the marginal victory. A little disappointing, but again it is the AI and it has improved expotentially since the SC1 days. The one biggest fault of the AI that I would focus on, is that .....focus.

The AI tends to be easily diverted and does not amass his forces like a human opponent. Obviously a human can defeat it with a locally superior force as long as a proper diversion is prepped.

The other thing I observed is the Allied AI uses lacking units like artillery, anti-air and anti-tank units to initiate amphibious assaults on the home islands instead of more effective infantry and armor. Course I did concentrate on taking those type of units out when faced with a choice of amphibians.

Its been fun, but like brother Rambo states, the AI still doesn't count.

[Blashy]

I still can not get more than a marginal victory vs. the AI at the hardest setting.

[SeaMonkey]

I would assume that the only way of obtaining a better victory margin, would be if Japan retained control of the seas.

Obviously that is impossible with the current USN build Q and tech advantage. In my game I heard the sound of jets by late 44 coming from the Allied camp.

[LampCord]

So far I've played 4 games as the Allies vs hardest AI and I've won all four easily. Taking Japan all the way out before the deadline and getting nukes all 4 times.

I'm playing my first game as Japan and its a lot tougher. Its December 44. I took out Burma, the inner ring of islands, China, the East Coast of Russia. But in the last few turns the US has taken Gilbert (I have Tinian guarded really well), The Dutch East Indies, the UK has retaken Burma and is into Western China. I don't think I can stop him, I have a lot of str 2 and 3 armies that I leave behind to deal with partisans but even if I crank them up to 10's, it will be hard to hold off 9 more months!

My navy still has 6 CV's at 5-2-3 but only about 10 surface and no subs remain. I've KO'd 3 US CV's but its navy is everywhere and subs are a nightmare. I'm withdrawing from everywhere to make a final stand on the Home Island. I plan to hold Korea and Tinian (to stop nukes) as the last places before throwing everything on the home island at the end. My navy is withdrawing from the DEI's where they failed to stop the invasion and is headed to the area between Japan and Russia where I can have maximum air cover.

The US Navy is right in front of the HI, and I've been in the process of operating my air force

back to the main island and upgrading and reinforcing it.

There is an epic battle between my air and the US Navy on everyturn but I just can't chase it away and the subs are choking me dry.

So even though I haven't finished, I can tell its much tougher to get a complete victory as Japan than it is as Allies. So my take is it is imbalanced in terms of victory conditions. Either that or I'm just way better at playing the Allies side which is also possible.

[Bill101]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. Now that the first patch has been released please keep it coming as it is interesting to read the reports and learn from them.