Mortar question

[Aacooper]

Are real-life mortars as powerful as the game represents?

A 60mm battery can choose from different firing patterns (point, line, and circle), and even fire airbursts. The same goes for 81mm & Syrian mortars. Have mortars been used to take out BMP's like you can in the game?

One website (http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/index.html#mortar) only lists HE, smoke, and illumination rounds for the 60mm & 81mm mortars.

Thanks,

P.S. will Normandy have nighttime illumination like flares?

[flamingknives]

Airbursting is a function of the fuse rather than the ammunition. IIRC, the 81mm and 60mm mortar bombs fit common fuses. These can be set for point detonation, delay or proximity (airburst) firing pattern is a function of the tube setting, so the available options for CM:SF can all be achieved using normal HE and smoke. I don't know what options Syrian mortars have in real life.

A mortar bomb, falling at terminal velocity has a fair amount of energy, and the BMP only has 5mm of roof armour.

[Battlefront.com]

A direct hit by a mortar round, on the roof, should KO most thinly armored vehicles. Mortar fragments can also damage/destroy running gear, especially wheels (obviously!).

Airbursts are nasty because most forms of natural cover are horizontally aligned, not vertically. Vehicles are no different since they all have to compromise their protection in order to get adequate protection from horizontal fire. Usually armored vehicles have horrible top and bottom armor, very often rear armor is paper thin as well (even Abrams!).

Steve

[ChrisND]

One website (http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/index.html#mortar) only lists HE, smoke, and illumination rounds for the 60mm & 81mm mortars.

The standard HE round has a fuze that can be point-detonated, delayed, or air burst at various heights, all at a twist.

[MikeyD]

A quote stolen off the web:

The M720 [60mm round] is equipped with the M734 Multi-Option Fuze which can be set to function in the Proximity, Near Surface Burst, Impact, or Delay mode.

Here's a 60mm round with proximity fuse fitted:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MSPO2007-37-01.jpg

I recall reading that in Bosnia the U.S. fielded an ECM emitter at their bases that mimiced the return echo from an electronic proximity fuse. Fooled the round into thinking it was at optimal height so it would explode well outside of perimeter. The U.S. (or somebody, I can't recall) are now developing a jam-resistant optical proximity fuse.

[Aacooper]

Thanks, that's pretty wild.

[cmfan]

Are real-life mortars as powerful as the game represents?

A 60mm battery can choose from different firing patterns (point, line, and circle), and even fire airbursts. The same goes for 81mm & Syrian mortars. Have mortars been used to take out BMP's like you can in the game?

One website (http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/index.html#mortar) only lists HE, smoke, and illumination rounds for the 60mm & 81mm mortars.

Thanks,

P.S. will Normandy have nighttime illumination like flares?

Modern mortar rounds can fit all sorts of fuses. The 60mm round for example comes standard with a multi-purpose fuse (or at least it did when I was in the Army) that you could set for proximity, quick, super quick and I forget what else.

As for lethality - air bursting rounds are devastating against infantry in the open, probably more so, in my opinion, than the game models. Which I think makes it all too easy for us to call for danger close fire without fear of friendly casualties.

Anyway, I would say most vehicles would be KOed by a direct hit by anything in the 81mm range and above. The trick however is getting that direct hit or near direct hit. U.S. mortars and artillery in CM are modeled as being capable of incredibly accuracy. I haven't seen the changes in fire control first hand since I left the Army, however back in the mid-nineties we didn't count on "point target" fire to take out vehicles with our heavy mortars. Perhaps 155 artillery was capable of it, but mortars really weren't unless the target vehicle was already disabled and just sat there as we fired away. Even then I recall my platoon sergeant telling us that our platoon could expect to expend about 40 107mm mortar rounds to take out one vehicle.

I can't remember if he meant this to reflect a calculated average (e.g. 1 million bullets fired per man killed) or an estimation of platoon capabilities (e.g. 3 gun section firing around 12 rounds a piece can achieve the desired results). We were working with an old mortar system (good old four-deuce) at the time so it might have been the former. Then again, we never adjusted fire any more accurately than the kill radius of our rounds even when we got the 120.

Oh, almost forgot. There was a sergeant in our platoon who did receive a medal for taking out a BMP during the gulf war via direct lay so I guess it's possible but you need ideal conditions.

More on Mortars -

Modeling Illum would be great. We use to fire a lot of that stuff even when our forces had good night vision equipment. FOs liked to call it in so they could adjust artillery. I'm not sure how it would be modeled in the game though.

TRPs should really, really be in the game. We used them constantly and they made a huge difference in how fast we could shoot.

One advantage mortars have over artillery, apart from the high angle fire, is that they can fire from the "hip" much more easily than even the smallest artillery piece. We were trained so that we could be in the middle of a road march, get a call for fire, and be set up and sending rounds down range in a few minutes. It provided the battalion with supporting fire when it was advancing rapidly and supporting artillery was out of range or in the middle of its own move. I suppose scenario designers could model this by having mortars accessible to FOs earlier in a fight than artillery.