Something missing

[scottsmm]

First off I'm sure when I get this game it's going to be great, but I feel like there is something missing, and that is a naval blockade. There are ways to blockade cities, fortresses, armies, air units, etc yet in History the most effective blockades especially when your talking about small islands with nothing but molten rock on them would be a naval blockade. I mean think about it for a second a lot of the supplies in the Pacific theater where brought in by boat for both sides. So then why in this great game that we are privileged to buy and play is there nothing called a naval blockade. I'm not complaining at all, but I just feel like it's missing and should be able to be used in this game via supply scripts. It's just something to think about I guess, and I hope the SC2 Pacific Theater people will take me seriously on this.Bottom line is great job creating this game, but I think there are ways you could improve it, and I'm sure you will. Other then that I would like to wish everyone from Hubert Cater to Bill 101 down a very merry christmas .

[Timskorn]

Merry Christmas! Well...in an hour anyway.

Naval blockades are in a sense "in" the game already. Units on islands get supply from ports and towns, both of which can be damaged to cripple supply there.

[scottsmm]

Merry christmas to you too. Yes to a point your right, but I'm not talking about naval bombardment of an island instead I'm talking about surrounding the island like in History with a naval flotilla, and cut off the supply to that island via a script in supply. Think about it I'm effectively saying that when I have navy guns surrounding an island I'm not going to let the enemy supply ships get through, and hence since it's an island the supply would plummet downward. Great examples of this are in Iwo Jima, Okinawa, battle of Japan (since over 90% of Japan is mountanious and therefore doesn't have natural resources)Just an idea that I think could easily be done, and when I get the game I'm definitely going to commit myself with what resources I have to create this scenario. I hope you understand the message I'm trying to convey to you and others, merry christmas, and good night.

[xwormwood]

But than there were islands with huge stockpiles of supply, who wouldn't suffer soon or much from a naval blockade again.

And when you think it through, even fuel for naval units should be limited, making your japanese fleet think twice before it make its move anywhere:

"is this journey worth the fuel?".

I think it is nearly impossible to integrate this feature (naval blockade) as long as you want to play an beer and pretzel game.

"War in the Pacific" had supply integrated, but there you had to ship manualy all your supply to each and every island, stockpiling it there.

And it was a hell of work to do these shipment runs, to calculate how many transports you need when and where, to overwatch a couple of hundred supply depots ("do i have there enough to start an invasion?", "where do i need to start a depot", "what should be my hub for operation xyz"). It was fun, but you needed some love for brutal bookkeeping work.

Not everyones fun, believe me.

[Blashy]

Remember that this game is strategic in nature, what you discuss is more tactical in nature. It is also getting into more detailed issues of WW2 and I know that Hubert takes great pride in making this game easily accessible and not too difficult to learn.

I personally love this game because of its overall simplicity.

[scottsmm]

Okay, apparently you guys aren't up for the idea. I don't see how though it would be complicated all you would have to do is have naval units surround an enemy island and that's it. When I'm talking about this though I'm talking about small islands Iwo Jima, Wake, or islands where you know that they can't create their own supply. I'm not talking about having a few Jap naval units around the west coast and having that hinder the US supply.

[xwormwood]

It is not that i don't agree, but it would be a hell of work to adjust your suggestion.

Example: how long would it need to surrender one island before it should loose its supply values?

What would you say? One turn? Or does an island have always enough supply to survive 5 turns of surrendering?

Would it have to be completly surrendered, or would Zones of control be enough?

Should it affect the offensive or the defensive stats, or both?

Would morale rise ("we fight till death") or fall ("we all gonna die here")?

All in all it would rise many questions, but it could of course be done.

On a scale from A (must have, hurry up!), B (should be done somewhere on the road) or C (nice to have) i personaly would rank it under "C", while i would give "lets engineers be able to build roads, and as a second step on a toad tile railways" a "B", while i would put "allow AI players to change playing sides whenever they want" under "A".

But I guess that everyone has his own point of view here.

[scottsmm]

1. depends on the size of the island smaller islands lose supply values quicker, because they don't have as much natural resources to run off as the bigger islands do.

2. It could be completely surrendered as long as there are no enemy units on the island, because if it's just civilians there would be no way they would take that type of a beating. While if there are enemy units there you could allow zones to be given up where there wasn't a strong enough presence of enemy forces.

3. It should of course effect both offensive and defensive stats for the obvious reason that if you don't have any gas or ammunition your not going to be fighting a war as good as if you had them.

4. Morale should go down just as long as it's not Kamikaze units that are there, because there plan was to die anyway with supplies or without them.

I personally place it in as a A/B doesn't have to be put in immedatly, but because of the historical nature of this event should definately be put in fairly soon before the SC team moves onto there next game. I suppose this question will show if we want a historical game, or if we want a "what if" game in which anything can happen. Anything being the key word.

[jon_j_rambo]

Naval blockade? Who cares? By the time you got enough ships to surround an island, this means you're already kicking ass. Starving out some loser unit is a waste of time.

The crazy Japs aren't going to surrender because of lack of food. They'd eat worms, bugs, dead fish, each other.....would take forever to get the Nips out......you need flamethrowers.

I bet there's Nips still living in caves in 2008 who haven't surrendered. Remember the Gilligan's Island episode with the Jap with the thick glasses?

[Timskorn]

haha, wow I think I do remember that episode and I barely watched the show! Wasn't he in a midget sub or something?

In the context of how SC2 works right now, having to completely surround an island to starve out a unit or two with valuable ships just isn't worth it for many reasons, one of which JJR mentioned. Mainly, the enemy would have full LOS to every single ship next to the island. If I were playing you, I'd be extremely happy to know exactly where most of your fleet is for 5 turns, or even for 1 turn. You're inviting a tactic that has little benefit but great potential for loss.

Even if I choose not to attack your fleet, just knowing exactly where 6+ of your ships are allows me to do other things without fear you'll be around to stop it. And again, there are ways to choke off supply already by shelling/bombing the town and port. If you have that much naval and airpower concentrated in one area, you should have little problem KO'ing that 1 enemy unit stationed there.

[Minty]

Blockades in an SC game would be YAWN. the only good suggestion I have seen so far here is that ports and towns should not auto repair. I mean if Rambo and his buddies island on your tiny island and flamethrower all your rice before hoping off to the next island, then who is going to repair it?

[scottsmm]

You know what forget the naval blockade idea. Instead I just had a thought. What if a new unit could be created. This unit would of course be called a flamethrower. Could be nice to have since they were used in abundance. Although I guess you could just say that they were a part of armies, and there is no need to create the unit. I guess this idea wasn't well thought out on my part (naval blockade). It's just it was used in basically every island battle there was in the Pacific. You guys definitely have a point with it being better for the enemy (intel wise). Just figured it was worth throwing out there.