Questions about the future of this game

[ChrisND]

I assume that the fuel also adds a bit of kick, no? RPG + fuel seems like a big fire to me.

A fire is likely. I have set fire to vehicles simply by laying into them with a 7.62 machine gun. For an fuel tank explosion to occur, however, there needs to be fuel vapor, a condition which typically doesn't exit in a personal automobile on the side of the road. Any explosion you see is most likely made by the impacting round itself.

[stoex]

vapor is the key here, definitely...but it's not so easy to get as it seems.

chemically, the only substances that can really "explode" in the actual sense are those that are already mixed in suitable proportions with their appropriate reactant (oxygen in most cases, but can be other things as well). most explosives which are used in ammunitions or bombs carry most or all of their reactant directly in their chemical compound, are therefore rather volatile and require only an appropriate energy source to go start the chain reaction we see as an explosion(heat or an electric shock, for certain very dangerous compounds strong mechanical force like compression or even shaking may suffice).

gasoline, diesel, oil and whatever other stuff might be found in a car always needs the oxygen from air to ignite, and that in very precise proportions. therefore, these will only burn on the surface if there is the right amount of oxygen touching that surface. to explode (which is really only the pressure increase caused by heat from a very fast burn, and gasoline burns comparatively slowly even at its best), gasoline needs to be aerosolized evenly and ignited at precisely the right moment. That combination is very unlikely to be achieved in an uncontrolled environment like firing an MG at a car's gas tank. A HE round, say an ATGM's warhead or a tank's shell, is a slightly different matter, but in this case the explosion of the round would usually be so fast that its "igniting potential" on the gasoline (the heat) would already be wasted and dissipated by the time the gasoline got properly aerosolized by the blast. Remember that it takes a LOT of boom to actually blow a car inside out, which is basically what you would need to aerosolize the gasoline to an ignitable mix with the air's oxygen. Also, the explosion of an HE round not only blast parts of whatever it hits a long way away, but also the surrounding air itself..and without air, no ignition of the gasoline...

Sorry for cracking wise with all the science here, but I actually studied this stuff for a while, and did excessive research to build large but safe tin can bombs in my backyard

[Battlefront.com]

Yeah, what stoex said

I remember years ago an inventor in Canada came up with a gas tank that prevented any chance of an explosion from happening. IIRC it had some sort of wafer baffle system that used a sort of divide and conquer approach. The criticism was it was horribly expensive and the chances of it making a difference were simply not worth the cost.

Steve

[stoex]

I do also recall there being a recall of some model of pickup some years ago, don't remember which make or brand, because under certain circumstances if the pickup got hit in the side where the tank was by another car at high speed, there was a significant chance of the gasoline igniting more or less seriously. There were even some videos where they showed tests of this happening, but it was before youtube I think and I can't seem to find those vids anywhere now.

Anyhow, that was due to a serious design flaw and was extremely rare even under controlled test circumstances AFAIK, so not really anything you could make a case out of for CMSF. Worrisome if you had that kind of pickup, of course , but they did recall them. Anyone remember this?

EDIT: Thanks Steve, for providing another grateful forum user with an excellent signature ...starting with my next post

[stoex]

Bump for said Signature

[c3k]

stoex,

That video of the pickup truck exploding after being hit in its saddle-style gas tanks (outside the frame, beneath the sheetmetal, just ahead of the rear axle); it is one of the most famous examples of the so-called "news media" staging a fake event.

They rammed the truck repeatedly by another car at the exact right angle. All they got was leaking fluid. Not very good for the ratings. They then RIGGED an explosive charge in (or next to) the gas tank. They blew it at the appropriate moment on the next ram; that footage was what they aired. They forgot to mention you'll only explode like that if you detonate an explosive: oooops.

That is one of the myriad of reasons the "news" is held in such low regard.

Regards,

Ken

Edited to add: crawl under your vehicle (or any neighbor's or coworkers). What you will find is that the gas tank is outside the frame. In fact, most cars these days are frameless. The gas tank is only protected by the bumper and/or sheetmetal. The saddle placement protects the fuel tank from the most common, rear, collision. So, you could argue that the "news" story which led to the change in pickup truck fuel tank placement may've caused more property loss and injuries (if the rearward placement has caused more fires). My understanding of these things is that fuel tank design in modern automobiles focuses on robust plastic containers and various one-way check valves such that tank rupture or fuel pushing out of the refill line is less likely to occur. The design assumes impact forces on the tank instead of trying to locate a "brittle" tank in a safe location. Hey, I'm talking about "tanks"; does that make it on topic?

Ken

[stoex]

Thanks for the info, Ken...like I said my recall of the exact details was hazy, and now you mention it I do seem to remember hearing that sometime. Anyway, I'd filed the whole episode under "Don't we all have more serious things to worry about?", which is why I didn't remember that clearly, I guess. Probably shouldn't have written about it in that case, but I think my previous post on this subject made it clear that my knowledge-based opinion on it is, quite simply put, this:

Gasoline in car fuel tanks won't blow up no matter what you do to it. Other things, however, blow up just fine, and if there happens to be gasoline or a car tank close by when that happens, one may get a different impression. In other words, anything that actually causes gas in a tank to blow up is so bad that the gas isn't going to make any noticeable difference to the result. Either that or it'S been carefully rigged.

Thanks again for the reminder, though, and I'm certainly with you all the way concerning the news

[The Warrior]

I think the biggest thing that is missing for this game as for the Americans is UAVs and being able to use the OH-58 for spotting and recon. As for that matter, how about AAA units for the Syrians such as the Shilka.

[Inkompetent]

A Shilka, even if not actually doing anything as an anti-air unit, would be a really nice asset as direct ground support, like the Russians used them in Chechenya when fighting in cities.

[Battlefront.com]

Stoex,

Anyhow, that was due to a serious design flaw and was extremely rare even under controlled test circumstances AFAIK, so not really anything you could make a case out of for CMSF. Worrisome if you had that kind of pickup, of course , but they did recall them. Anyone remember this?

Actually, it was a whole crudload of pickup trucks!

http://library.findlaw.com/2007/Jul/1/247156.html

The most famous, though, is the Pinto. Time just ranked it one of the worst 50 car designs of all time (stumbled upon the ranking this morning!). The article reminded me that Ford figured out, before the cars were sold, how much it would cost to redesign the car and how much it would cost to pay damages for burnt up customers' families. Their calculation showed it was more favorable to have BBQ customers than to have a safer vehicle.

Hmmm... and why on Earth should the US car companies be in such a problem state as they are now? You would think grateful US customers would be writing their Senators to do whatever it takes to keep them in business. Right?

No problem on providing a sig line. I do what I can do!

Steve