Big Al's historical Mod v1.2 is in CMODs

[Moon]

RAR or ZIP only.

[Big Al]

Ok I added a Temperate Pacific weather zone. Made the Arctic a little less muddy, made the new zone less muddy than that which covers most of china.

Swtiched all non-mech move to 2.

Now I would like some suggestions for new unts. Personally I dont like artillery in this scale. I would like to replace it with something else.

IDEAS I HAVE:

Germany: Defensive infantry...Late in the war the Germans swapped from having 3 battalions per division to 2 battalions and concentrated more on defensive weapons. This reduced the cost and lowered its attack capability. lower attack higher defense, cheaper. Maybe avoid damage. But Im not sure if they avoids ALL damage or its per point.

Italy: no idea

Japan: no idea

UK: still no idea

USA: no idea

USSR: no idea

[Big Al]

ZIP I will try it again

[John DiFool the 2nd]

Okay once I have time (tonite) and it is uploaded (to a working site ) I'll start the playtest. Not sure what other types of units you can have-if you have el cheapo garrison/partisan killer units then you'll have to adjust the number of corps downward. They may work better on Pacific Islands as garrisons than regular corps, and Lord knows how the AI will handle them (tossing them into the front lines to be slaughtered most likely).

[Big Al]

Nope cant upload it to the repository. It takes 20mins then gives me some message about the file not being proper. Its a zipped fild and over 40mb.

It says "This file was unspecified" what does that mean?

[John DiFool the 2nd]

Major bummer Al, as CMM is still down. Moon is there a size limit or something at work?

Ideas for the extra unit type:

Cavalry for the Russians. 3 movement points (vs. the 2 you gave infantry now), low attack and defense values. NATO mip is a square with one diagonal.

Garrisons for Germany, Japan, and maybe the US or even UK. Same defense values as a corps, 0 for attack values, trade in 1 corps for 1.5 garrisons in the force pools (I think a 1:2 ratio may result in some gamey strategies). NATO mip is an empty square. This assumes the AI knows how to use them. Germany's designed for cities behind the Russian lines, likely will require more partisan squares to compensate and some extra regular Russian army units as well. Also can put some on the Atlantic Wall. USA & Japan's meant for Pacific islands.

No idea what to give the Italians.

[Moon]

Nope cant upload it to the repository. It takes 20mins then gives me some message about the file not being proper. Its a zipped fild and over 40mb.

It says "This file was unspecified" what does that mean?

That's a generic error message saying that it doesn't like something about your submission. In this case, it's the size. ~ 22 MB is the current limit for uploads.

Big Al, please email me at martin@battlefront.com and I will send you instructions via mail how to upload that file via ftp.

[Big Al]

Latest version is up on CMODS. I will try and upload the new version on the repository.

Corrected some bugs, aded some graphics to interface to include Japanese symbols, all inf class units 2APs. I am running a new game now for testing.

[Moon]

File upload limit for the Repository has been increased to 40MB per file.

Martin

[John DiFool the 2nd]

I'll give it a go this weekend B.A.

[Nupremal]

You guys may want to try mine (as Axis) - it seems to be coming along well - I will put a slightly updated version up tonight, but it is working well overall.

[John DiFool the 2nd]

Only so many hours in the day Nupremal. Yours has the advantage of having everything at one scale and the map is more aesthetically pleasing as a result, but Al made the decision to cut out anything which did not/could not have had a campaign fought on it (well except for things like the Graf Spee engagement, which in SC wouldn't happen anyway because surface ships can't raid convoys).

[Nupremal]

Yes if I had to do it again I might squish Africa some and make the Med bigger, but I am pleased that the game seems to be working well right now. I like it when the programmed AI at least gets some things right. The Allied ships are swarming me now and invaded Algeria. I don't know if the Pacific will work but just now the Japanese are finally finishing off DEI and Philippines. They are also making progress in China - mostly because the AI is overly aggressive. I am thinking I will add a garrison unit to replace the AT with no offensive ability and like 1 AP so it can't be used to attack and they won't leave critical areas empty - the AI does that even though I tell it not to.

[Big Al]

I am having same problems. I tell the Russians to garrison and they do then charge the line. Ugh. I am thinking of garrison units too to replace artillery. Artillery with experience and tech is just too nasty and too inappropriate for this scale.

If I play the USSR I have plenty of units to defend vs the Germans and I modeled the AI's production that way too but form some forsaken reason the AI does something else with its points and ends up NOT having enough units.

[Nupremal]

Well you did that odd thing w/AT units, for me I want to use them since just some AT upgrades won't be a bif deal, especially since my tech mods are all reduced to .5

I would point out if you are trying to balance the AI at even that is not wise because then human vs human won't be balanced. The AI needs bonuses. What I do is provide extra units for the AI via scripting.

[Moon]

I just discovered a bug on the server which was preventing uploads of anything bigger than 40 Bytes. Should have been 40MB. Oops, nasty typo. Will be fixed today.

[Moon]

Already fixed.

[John DiFool the 2nd]

Alright, latest playtest results follow:

1. Russia's 1942 forces were once again very modest, and I won in July of '43. This time they had, as of May '42, before I blitzkrieged through Moscow and charged towards the Urals, the following forces:

10 Corps

8 Armies

3 HQs

3 Tanks

3 Fighters

1 Each: AT, AA, Tac Bomber, Engineer, Para

And not a single unit was to be found in the south, and my forces down there quickly grabbed every city and oil well. [i know you haven't scripted garrisons or engineers to fortify yet] Compared to Hubert's latest version of the 1939 Fall Weiss campaign:

FW vs. Global

Cities 21 vs. 14 (+4 Siberia)

Mines 6 vs. 3

Oil 3 vs. 3

Thus the USSR will have around a 60-90 MPP shortfall per turn, and as Nupremal said the AI needs some free units considering how badly it tosses them away. Remember towns give no MPPs. Twice now the Siberians have just charged straight at Archangel, ignoring the threats I posed to the south.

2. Japan pretty much made the US Navy a non-entity. Pearl Harbor wiped out 3 BBs, and a delayed Midway (May '43) was a resounding success for the IJN, sinking 2 BBs, 3 CVs, and 2 CAs with no losses other than a few dinged-up ships (I had bought 2 extra CVs). There likely should be some NEI ships down there, a cruiser unit, perhaps a DD or two. I managed to take the oils and the NEI capital without much problem, eventually got the Philippines & French Indochina along with a cooperative Siam, and was marching on Vladisvostok when I ended the game.

3. I don't know how much you can do about this on your end, but the US lost about 10 units it was launching at North Africa for a would-be Torch because nothing bothered to escort them. I had 5 level 2 subs with oodles of elite stars by the end of the game, but they just kept coming. The open Gibraltar allowed the Italian Navy to sortie out into the Atlantic on several occasions to sink things, including wiping out 4 destroyers after they had encountered my subs, with only a meek response from the RN. I'd probably go back to blocking the strait with a port as in FW. After I blew those DDs away the Allies never built any replacements, and no British ships were ever sighted in the Pacific.

4. Tech I'm not sure about-the British had level 5 jets by the end of the game (I had level 4 after having madly trying to catch up, US level 1, USSR level 2). Between them however the Allies had one level in Production Tech and Industrial Tech combined, which may explain in part how I was able to whomp them that badly. Again that will require scripts. I'd argue that the US and Germany had level 1 subs at the start: the big comfy US fleet boats with their radar, and the thick-hulled, quick diving boats of the Kriegsmarine-both had good torpedo data computers, albeit with some torpedo problems. Feel free to bump the max sub level up to 4 if you like.

The British probably are getting too many MPPs: in addition to the tech they had tons of planes, and all this with my subs running amok in their convoy lanes. The biggest problem being that all mainland British metropolises are cities-should have a smattering of towns in there, and perhaps a small tweak downwards in terms of overseas MPPs as well.

5. The 2 hex movement for infantry seemed to work out okay. While I did have an early start for Barborossa (late May '41), I reached the historical line by November of '41. You now had to outflank river lines: given an AI which "knew" to hold behind a river they would be a pretty tough nut to crack. The upgrade cost for motorizing a non-mechanized unit still seems a bit low in general, absurdly low in some cases (AA, AT, arty). Some of the mechanized infantry units still had 2 attacks, even if that country's armor did not.

6. I do think we need that garrison unit. I was feverishly trying to scrounge every spare unit for garrisons on the Eastern Front, and in the Pacific both sides really didn't have enough ground units to cover all island hotspots. Like I said don't go overboard in terms of how many, give them 0 soft attack, 1 defense (0 tank defense), 2 action points. Treat them as division-level units if you like.

Minor things:

The southernmost German Army cannot do anything on the first turn of the Polish campaign, blocked by a mountain which it no longer can cross.

Egypt probably needs a free unit or three-my subs also interdicted 3 British units headed that way from England. Italians twice now have taken it no problems, and blitzed on to Iran. BTW the Iraq trigger didn't work, and they stayed stuck at 76% Axis despite a whole row of Italian units along their border.

I'd probably route the Philippines convoy from Legaspi, giving any US subs a slightly bigger target in terms of convoy routes, and perhaps add one from Australia if the Japanese take that.

[Big Al]

#1 I gave Russia extra units outright about 7 of them mixed. I also added a vlad convoy over to them. The US actually did ship more material through Vlad than any other part of the convoy system. It was right under the Jap's noses, the ships had Russians flags. So that should add extra units. As for their play I have to look deeper into the scripts and modify them. I have scripts for all sorts of garrison lines but they seem to not follow all of them. Too few units? Now with the 2 hex movement I can probably reduce the garrison lines down since Germans cant cross a river between 2 units.

#2 The US script basically says stay out of the way and only intercept with a better force. In late 1943 they start invading islands. Did they do that at all?

#3 I thought I made an escort script but I will check again. For Europe I used the same scripts as Storm of Steal so they should all work.

#4 Tech will simply take time and adjusting. Im experimenting with different levels. Right now I have all tech @ 1% per level. I might increase the 1st level to 2.

#5 So the AI is holding river lines? THats how I planned it. I found the motorized upgrade too cheap also. Its in my list of fixes

#6 Yea think I will replace Arty with that.

MINOR:

Ill move the German unit

I'll add an Eqyption (prob a garrison)

I'll check Iraq trigger

I'll alter convoy in Phil for Japs.

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Ive been playing a game myself not as ruthless killing the AI as you. I am trying to advance slowly just to see if the scripting is generally working so I can make modifications.

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BTW the reason for heavy airpower for the allied AI is that I find if you dont control the seas and the sky you cant win a war. Just my experience from World in Flames.

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Thanks for all the input. I would really like this mod to work.

Im curious if anyone has played heads up human vs human?

[John DiFool the 2nd]

#1 I gave Russia extra units outright about 7 of them mixed. I also added a vlad convoy over to them. The US actually did ship more material through Vlad than any other part of the convoy system. It was right under the Jap's noses, the ships had Russians flags. So that should add extra units. As for their play I have to look deeper into the scripts and modify them. I have scripts for all sorts of garrison lines but they seem to not follow all of them. Too few units? Now with the 2 hex movement I can probably reduce the garrison lines down since Germans cant cross a river between 2 units.

#5 So the AI is holding river lines? THats how I planned it. I found the motorized upgrade too cheap also. Its in my list of fixes

They did hold what lines they could (such as east of Rostov, right before I ran around their northern flank and killed all 4 units). Most of the units I mentioned were in front of Moscow-they all died in 3 turns. As Kuniworth discovered in his scenario, experience can be a killer, and the historical solution was to throw tons of cannon fodder at the advance while husbanding a killer reserve to hit at just the right time. But the Russians simply don't have the MPPs to even slow the Germans down, and the cannon fodder simply pumps up the Axis experience levels, while mud and rain simply allows Elite levels to soar towards 15. Kuni put an experience cap in his scenario, but Hubert obviously did not. Perhaps some 0 MPP Ural towns can be set up to trigger when certain major Western cities are taken, to reflect factory transfers? I'd have to play as the Allies to see how things are from the other side tho, but frankly I'm a little burned out right now.

#2 The US script basically says stay out of the way and only intercept with a better force. In late 1943 they start invading islands. Did they do that at all?

Considering that by that time a goodly proportion of their Pacific Fleet was at the bottom of the ocean, no they didn't. Again many US air units were parked on Pacific islands. They had rebuilt some of the fleet by the end of '43, but I was sending a huge armada to take Hawaii, which would have been their swansong. Do Atlantic units use Panama at all? Is there a way to script transfers like that?

#4 Tech will simply take time and adjusting. Im experimenting with different levels. Right now I have all tech @ 1% per level. I might increase the 1st level to 2.

I think tech is working pretty well (tho like I said I don't know how it is from the Allied side). The US and Russia absolutely need to prioritize Prod and Ind Tech before they get in the war.

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Ive been playing a game myself not as ruthless killing the AI as you. I am trying to advance slowly just to see if the scripting is generally working so I can make modifications.

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BTW the reason for heavy airpower for the allied AI is that I find if you dont control the seas and the sky you cant win a war. Just my experience from World in Flames.

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I'm not a super hardcore vet like some here, but Terif certainly would agree with you. Just trying to push the envelope a bit, formulating what I need to do as the Axis to win and seeing how the AI responds.

[Big Al]

The US cant build units on the west coast so I put in some transfer scripts from easy coast. Apparently they are NOT working correctly because the US hasnt shipped poop to west coast. Its a continous script too. Have to work on it

[John DiFool the 2nd]

Didn't know that. If so I am seeing new ships on the West coast (Mar '44) which must be using the canal (because I killed most ships there a year earlier ).

Do Russians have double armor attacks? I say this because I don't remember them ever doing that with their armor. If not that will indeed sink them even with extra MPPs, as they must husband their armor carefully and hit the Germans when their own armor is overextended. One attack won't cut it and will leave them open to counter-counterattacks.

I'd also consider modeling the Russian mech infantry on their historical shock armies-tough against infantry, pretty tough against armor, but not fully motorized; give them 3 AP to reflect their offensive capabilities, but with a prohibitive motorized upgrade price), with a unique NATO icon to match. Not present in mid-41, perhaps available as 5 strength free builds starting in December '41, build limit of 3-4?

The Siberian garrisons are very nitpicky-I moved one piddly 3 strength corps in the direction of the NW one, to replace the army there, and it triggered Siberian activation. I'd switch to like a 5-6 hex radius centered on that Manchurian city up there-if more than 6 units are within that radius then that should trigger the Siberian entry.

[Big Al]

The russians do have mech BTW and are able to build 3-4. The ships for the US are scripted in so they come in on a schedule for the AI since it doesnt build on west coast. I'll look again at the Siberians.

[Nupremal]

1 - suggestion - set the west coast city(s) to be Industrial Centers, then units can be built there.

2 - Have you had the bug when the USA joins that you get a message saying "china switches sides"? It will be fixed in next PDE patch but you have the same setup and so I was curious.

[John DiFool the 2nd]

Yes he does on the switching sides thing. When it hit me it was like "WTF?" and I about threw something at the screen when my entire Chinese front went unsupplied.

Just would be cool to rename the Russian mechs as shock armies, with unique icon to match. Clash of Steel gave them a little icon of a Katyusha. Should have at least one that comes in with the Siberians.