Realistic People Damage?

[The Sun Machine]

One thing that I felt to be frusterating about ToW was that the tanks seemed to be the main focus of every mission, which I realize is completely accurate, but when I tried to make an all infantry battle I found it to be lacking for one reason.

Almost like in Red Orchestra, if you take a bullet, be it a 9mm or a .50 cal, you are not firing your weapon for the rest of the battle, and therefore are a casualty. So why is it that every weapon, besides heavy guns and sniper rifles, take at least two hits to kill? I have no problem with the lack of human hitboxes, just the outrageous tenacity of your soldiers.

It would be nice to see an option to make humans on both sides become more vulnerable.

[SlapHappy]

Sun Machine

You can increase the vulnerability of troops to fire if you so wish. It requires some manipulation of the data set using external tools, but it can be done. You can even change movement speeds of vehicles and infantry if you wish.

[The Sun Machine]

I figured you could in ToW, but it should be easier.

Speaking of which, I would like to know of these tools one can use. Do you have the link to a thread that would be helpful?

[Quenaelin]

I don't see that to be very realistic that only one bullet will incapacitate soldier nomatter where it hits, becouse lethality really depends from hit location and which is severity of strike. It could be only minor flesh wound, which enables soldier to continue combat. In WWII many weapons weren't so lethal as today weapons with high velocity bullets. Bullet looses its lethality if it drops too much speed.

[The Sun Machine]

1- Unless you are grazed by a bullet or take a 9mm from one and a half kilometres away, you are not still fighting.

2- The 30-06 and 8mm mauser both go the same speed if not more as the 7.62x51, but carry more energy.

3- Many a time is it that my soldiers get hit from a rifle that is 10 metres away to only become "wounded"

4- Where are the .ini or .cfg files in the Theatre of War file?

[Quenaelin]

As I mentioned before bullet wound could be only surface wound not destroying bones or vital organs but only minor flesh wound which enables soldiers to carry on fighting, but of course bleeds to death after a while. I have read that in WWII there was many heroic soldiers who still continued fighting dispite of their wounds, of course submachine weapons were weaker in that time and men were maybe stronger those days. Anyway in WWII mentality was different, enemy must be stopped no matter what effort it would require, it really wasn't anykind of easy going war when you stopped fighting with one wound in your hand or leg. What comes to Russians there were officers their behind and shooting soldier from behind if you don't advance enough. I don't see it realistic that one minor wound with any kind of weapon will incapacitate soldier, not in WWII game.

Here is quote from http://guns.connect.fi/gow/suomi1.html

"Semi-automatic shooting was the recommendation during the Thirties. The doctrine was to use the KP/-31 as a self-loading carbine and save the option of burst-fire for urgency only. The Winter War experience taught the submachine gunners to shoot bursts of two to three rounds and during the 1941 - 1944 war it was known that no fewer than five or six 9 mm bullets were a sufficient dose of medicine. Wounded with shorter bursts, enemy soldiers could often continue fighting when they recovered from the initial shock even if the hits would prove fatal after a short while."

[The Sun Machine]

It says "could often continue fighting" as in hypothetically. Most of these people aren't fighting for their motherland or fatherland, but just to stay alive. There is definitely not enough motivation for troops to continue fighting after they are shot for it to be a legitimate possibility. Maybe one or two percent would have such brainwashing that they may continue, but think about it. If you are shot in the head, chances are you would be greatly disorintated and/or blinded. If you are shot in the arm or shoulder and if you manage to break through the pain, you will not be able to fire anywhere near accurately. If you are shot in the leg, you are not moving well, and the pain would probably be keeping you from returning fire well. If there is no pain, that means your body has begun to shutdown and you are dead anyway. If you are shot in the torso, a number of problems may arise.

I guess that volunteers usually have a much bigger cause to fight for then conscripts. I must say it sounds very unreasonable that one could fight back after ten or twelve 9mms though. They also loose a considerable amount of energy in trasit from the barrel to the target because of the bullet's size. Still, rifle rounds should be one hit casualties out to 300m due to their size and velocity. It is rather bothersome to see a soldier get shot point blank by a bolt action rifle only to become "wounded".

Oh, and a link to the thread that contains the aformentioned external tools would be greatly appreciated!

[JDski]

I know even at 100 yards a Springfield will blow a exit hole the size of a baseball on a groundhog. Unless it was a graze, that would be one serious flesh wound. Not that I'm personaly looking for my troops to die any easier then they already are.

[SlapHappy]

It says "could often continue fighting" as in hypothetically. Most of these people aren't fighting for their motherland or fatherland, but just to stay alive. There is definitely not enough motivation for troops to continue fighting after they are shot for it to be a legitimate possibility. Maybe one or two percent would have such brainwashing that they may continue, but think about it. If you are shot in the head, chances are you would be greatly disorintated and/or blinded. If you are shot in the arm or shoulder and if you manage to break through the pain, you will not be able to fire anywhere near accurately. If you are shot in the leg, you are not moving well, and the pain would probably be keeping you from returning fire well. If there is no pain, that means your body has begun to shutdown and you are dead anyway. If you are shot in the torso, a number of problems may arise.

I guess that volunteers usually have a much bigger cause to fight for then conscripts. I must say it sounds very unreasonable that one could fight back after ten or twelve 9mms though. They also loose a considerable amount of energy in trasit from the barrel to the target because of the bullet's size. Still, rifle rounds should be one hit casualties out to 300m due to their size and velocity. It is rather bothersome to see a soldier get shot point blank by a bolt action rifle only to become "wounded".

Oh, and a link to the thread that contains the aformentioned external tools would be greatly appreciated!

Cmmods.com

register as new user

go to tow scenarios section after logon

download sfsextractor.exe

This is the application that lets you extract the recursive subdirectories that make up the sfs archive files that contain most of the moddable information.

[Dr.Jones]

And download also the filelist.txt from cmmods.com

br.

Dr.Jones

[SG1]

Well, well, well... Sorry to interrupt philosophy and data dropping but I would be pleased to see the two following items in the game indeed :

- the introduction of "incapacited" status, namely the soldier is alive but cannot fire nor move.

- the corollary introduction of "saving" such incapacited men, I am not talking of restoring them to fully healthy status like in the Sudden Strike series, but of stabilising them using medics and of moving or dragging them to safety using other soldiers.

I remember the "incapacited" status and possibility to move a badly wounded soldier using two other valid or slightly injured ones was present in a cardboard wargame I used to play in the late 70's / early 80's. It added a lot to immersion.

Of course, we are talking ToW 2 here but I am pleading for the introduction in ToW as well.

[The Sun Machine]

Well, well, well... Sorry to interrupt philosophy and data dropping but I would be pleased to see the two following items in the game indeed :

- the introduction of "incapacited" status, namely the soldier is alive but cannot fire nor move.

- the corollary introduction of "saving" such incapacited men, I am not talking of restoring them to fully healthy status like in the Sudden Strike series, but of stabilising them using medics and of moving or dragging them to safety using other soldiers.

I remember the "incapacited" status and possibility to move a badly wounded soldier using two other valid or slightly injured ones was present in a cardboard wargame I used to play in the late 70's / early 80's. It added a lot to immersion.

Of course, we are talking ToW 2 here but I am pleading for the introduction in ToW as well.

I completely agree with you, but I would assume that hitboxes would be in order for "incapacitated" status, which may be too much for a company scale strategy.

If hitboxes would not tax the limits of a standard computer, those useless medics could stabilize incapacitated soldiers so they could be available later in the campaign, like in Il-2 with wounded pilots coming back five or so missions later.

And thanks SlapHappy and Dr. Jones, although it took me forever to figure out what the hell I was doing I finaly got it so that my men die very quickly