JMcGuire Posted July 22, 2001 Share Posted July 22, 2001 Been away for quite awhile. We came back from France and I got sidetracked... buying a Viper. The car, not the video card. Making those arrangements can occupy a LOT of spare time... I finally had some free time this morning and decided to check out the good old CM forum. I kept telling myself, if I stay away long enough, maybe they'll have fixed the nVidia bugs. Maybe I can start playing my favorite game again. No dice. How lame. How depressing. One question for BTS: Will our otherwise-awesome nVidia cards work in CM Beyond Barbarosa? I'd hate to blow another fifty-odd dollars on a game I can't even play. :eek: I miss CM. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrullenhaft Posted July 22, 2001 Share Posted July 22, 2001 Sorry things aren't the way that you'd like them to be. My guess is that CMBB is going to have the same problems with NVidia's current FSAA routines that CMBO does currently. The only solution to this is to either turn off FSAA or use the 6.50 Reference drivers (some other betas around this version may work too). NVidia used a different FSAA sampling method back then and it didn't cause problems with CM's text (the new sampling routines probably use some shortcuts to make them a bit faster than the older ones). However if you're using a GeForce 3 you'll be unable to use any drivers before the 10.x+ series, leaving you with turning off FSAA. I'm sure you're aware of the current solutions anyway, so what I've written is probably just a waste of time. The FSAA sampling routines that NVidia implemented a little while back completely messed up the manner in which CM uses text. There will be no simple fix for this issue since it would require completely recoding all text routines in the game to accomodate NVidia FSAA sampling routines. Interface changes and several other things would need to be changed too in order to make CM's text "NVidia FSAA Proof". While this would be a worthy effort for all of those NVidia GeForce owners out there, I doubt it is up for consideration right now. The amount of work (figuring out in what different manner text should be displayed in CM won't be easy) is probably not worth performing to the current engine since the engine rewrite, CMII, is the next project. Work done on the current engine to accomodate NVidia's FSAA routines won't necessarily be applicable to CMII's code. While this may be a bothersome solution to GeForce users, you should look at FSAA use as an optional feature of your video card rather than as a mandatory one. Increase your resolution and you'll get a similar effect (except for the close up, Level 1 views). You'll just have to wait with the Mac OS X crowd for the engine rewrite to accomodate the changes you were hoping for. [ 07-22-2001: Message edited by: Schrullenhaft ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted July 23, 2001 Share Posted July 23, 2001 J, if you're out buying a Viper, why not just buy a second computer system that will run CM? It wouldn't be much more overkill than buying a Viper (for which I envy you no end. What banks do you rob?) DjB 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ckoharik Posted July 23, 2001 Share Posted July 23, 2001 No doubt! From what I heard the insurance alone per year on those things is ridiculous! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcGuire Posted July 23, 2001 Author Share Posted July 23, 2001 Schrullenhaft: I'm all too aware of the reasons, the so-called work-arounds, and generally the whole history of the problem. At one point I did have an older GeForce working with CM, albiet with ancient drivers. In a nutshell, that's why I came right out and said it. I love CM, I miss being able to play CM, I have three otherwise super-kick-ass machines (and one not-so-great machine) which aren't able to play it, and I stopped by to pout. No beating around the bush there. Doug probably makes a good point, but on the other hand, as much as I love CM, if the several thousands of dollars of computers I already have won't cut it, I think I'd just rather go driving. Panzer Boxb -- oddly enough Viper insurance is very low, relatively speaking. My pickup (2500 V10 HD) has higher rates. Apparently they're very safe. Well folks, it's been real -- maybe I'll drop by in another few months to bitch & moan. I'm sure Schrully will give me a warm welcome. BTS if you're out there -- there are a hell of a lot of GeForces being sold these days... sure maybe the hextile grogs are barely tolerant of this new-fangled chit-free approach, but if high quality graphics weren't popular, you wouldn't have all those mod discussions in the other areas... Oh well. Keeping my fingers crossed until next time. I really do miss it. See ya. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted July 24, 2001 Share Posted July 24, 2001 Howdaya like that. Breezes by to complain that none of his 4 computers will play CM, mentions offhand that he's only stopping by because he's got some free time while awaiting delivery on his Viper, and then has the GALL to ignore me over here waving my arms like a windmill shouting "please sir can I have a test drive?" {grumble} DjB 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voidhawk Posted July 24, 2001 Share Posted July 24, 2001 For what it is worth, I'm running a GeForce 2 GTS with the 6.50 drivers, and no matter what FSAA setting I use, the yellow "label" text (and only that text) is fuzzy. All other text is just fine. Also, increasing the resolution is not the answer for this game, as what the FSAA does here is to blur out all those nasty flickering pixels in the terrain and tree textures when you scroll around. With FSAA enabled (I use 2x2 at 1024x768), and with the Normany texture set, the graphics are almost photo-realistic! voidhawk 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonwagon Posted July 24, 2001 Share Posted July 24, 2001 Doesn't sound like u got too much to pout about,,,,,,,,All I wanna know is ? what color is the Viper....... :cool: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcGuire Posted July 25, 2001 Author Share Posted July 25, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Doug Beman: Howdaya like that. Breezes by to complain that none of his 4 computers will play CM, mentions offhand that he's only stopping by because he's got some free time while awaiting delivery on his Viper, and then has the GALL to ignore me over here waving my arms like a windmill shouting "please sir can I have a test drive?" {grumble} DjB<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The four computers -- it's a living. The Viper -- if you're in the area drop me a line, I love giving rides (and I've only had it a few days). As the joke goes, I keep finding new errands to run. "We need more milk. Surely three gallons isn't enough..." Dragonwagon - it's a yellow 2001. viper pix And I STILL miss CM. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mensch Posted July 25, 2001 Share Posted July 25, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JMcGuire: viper pix <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> you're cruel... *sigh*.. wow.. *sigh*... I'd say you lucky jerk.. but who knows when I may be around your side of the planet and need a ride real coool "machine" you got.. *sigh* 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted July 31, 2001 Share Posted July 31, 2001 Well now, I'm confused. :confused: The man says that he has 3 "super kick-ass" computers and one not-so "kick-ass", and yet he can't play CM on any of those. I kind of find that REALLY hard to believe. It don't take THAT much to run CM. People run CM on computers with P133 CPUs, although I'd hate to see it. :eek: As far as Geforce and FSAA problems, I have a 64MB Geforce 2 GTS using the stock drivers. Not even sure which version of the so-called Nvidia Reference drivers they are and I don't have any of these text problems. Sounds like the guy just wants to go drive his $100,000 Viper. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogface Posted August 1, 2001 Share Posted August 1, 2001 He is just an ass with no life other than to spend tons of money on a worthless peice of fiberglass.. and dont get me started on that dam 4x4 piece of crap hes got.. what a whiner...... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted August 1, 2001 Share Posted August 1, 2001 JMac, what area you in? {crosses fingers to hear "NJ") DjB 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcGuire Posted August 2, 2001 Author Share Posted August 2, 2001 Hi, the dumbass no life whiner here. Geez some of you guys need to unclench those butt cheeks and get out of the house a bit more often. You know, get a life. Ha. Doug, I'm in Florida. Sorry, man. Maximus, if you want specifics... #1: 1.2GHz PIII, ASUS mobo, 1GB RAM, 80GB Maxtor ATA/100, ASUS V7700 Deluxe, other miscellaneous stuff. #2: 822MHz PIII, AOpen mobo, 384MB RAM, 60GB Maxtor ATA/100, Guillemot GeForce2 GTS, other stuff. #3: 702MHz (overclocked 600) PIII, SuperMicro mobo, 256MB RAM, some old ~20GB drive ATA/66, Elsa E-Razor X2 GeForce 256 DDR, other stuff. #4: 500MHz PIII, SuperMicro mobo, 256MB RAM, forget the HDD size/brand, Voodoo 3500TV. At various times some of these machines have actually been able to play CM, but due to the kind of work I do, I frequently have to blow away my machines, change them around, rebuild them, etc, and I've never figured out the original "magic GeForce driver-version install sequence" that kept it working with that Elsa, the only GeForce that ever worked right for me. Despite being some guy who'd really rather go drive his Viper (can you friggin' BLAME me? geez), I do occasionally check back because I do love CM, and I do miss playing it. Find it hard to believe if you must, but the simple fact is CM has a serious GeForce problem. Sure it's convenient to blame nVidia, but I have a shelf full of other games that work just fine (to put it mildly). And at this point, BTS -- an otherwise fine company that I respect highly (I love the direct-sales thing and their normally very responsive attitude) -- BTS has probably just lost a customer. In fact, they lost a customer who has sent them several other customers in the past year. Yeah they have to prioritize, but nVidia isn't getting any less-popular, folks. Finally, Maximus, if you ever decide to buy a Viper, please contact me first. I'd be glad to sell you one for $100K... no, make that $90K, what a deal! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subvet Posted August 2, 2001 Share Posted August 2, 2001 Is it that you can't play CM with a GeForce, or that you can't play CM with a GeForce with FSAA enabled? Is it really hard to turn off the FSAA on these cards? Am I missing something obvious here? I am looking to buy a new video card in the near future. If I can't play CM with a GeForce then that card is out. If I can't play CM with a GeForce with FSAA enabled, no big deal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrullenhaft Posted August 2, 2001 Share Posted August 2, 2001 Subvet - CMBO (& CMBB) will work with all flavors of the GeForce. FSAA is the primary problem (the text issue occuring in all Win OS's with 7.xx/10.xx/11.xx/12.xx/14.xx+ drivers). In Win2K and WinXP there are some strange text transparency issues too. Otherwise the GeForce family will work with CM. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subvet Posted August 2, 2001 Share Posted August 2, 2001 Thanks Schrullenhaft. Is it hard to turn FSAA on and off? I've never had a card that used it before. Do you have to reboot to turn it off/on? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrullenhaft Posted August 3, 2001 Share Posted August 3, 2001 The FSAA options for the GeForces can be found at Start Menu > Settings > Control Panel > Display control panel > either the Settings tab or there may be a GeForce tab available here > going through the Settings tab click on the Advanced... button > one tab should list your GeForce (MX, GTS, etc.) > from here your options will vary depending on the driver that you have installed, with some of the later drivers (10.x +, these instructions reference the 12.41 drivers) click on the Additional Properties... button > click on the 3D Antialiasing Settings > here there are two selections, Allow applications to control antialiasing mode or Manually select the antialiasing mode with 4 sub-selections beneath it (in progressive settings for antialiasing). If you leave it in "Allow..." CM will not utilize FSAA. If you set it to "Manual..." you'll have to specify "Off..." to disable it. The other three modes will "force" antialiasing and cause the text problems. If you have a GeForce that isn't based on the GeForce3, then you can use the 6.50 (or the beta drivers in the 6.xx series) Reference driver and FSAA will work. However if you run other games, you may not get the speed or compatibility that later drivers have. The GeForce3 requires 10.xx or newer since those drivers are written to recognize the GeForce3. The FSAA controls appear in a different spot (and have different options) in the 6.xx series drivers. With the 6.xx series I've had to reboot in order for the FSAA changes to take affect (especially for CM's purposes - this may not be true for all games). However the driver doesn't force you to reboot once these changes are made, you just have to remember to do so. [ 08-02-2001: Message edited by: Schrullenhaft ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmatt Posted August 3, 2001 Share Posted August 3, 2001 Actually from testing I have conducted you can use drivers up to the WHQL 7.58 series with a Geforce, GeForce II or TNT based card without the FSAA corruption issue occuring pn Win95/98/ME. In fact I am running my Geforce II with those drivers right now and 4x4 FSAA is on with no problem. Those with Windows 2000 systems might want to look into running with the series 3.68 Detonator drivers available from http://www.guru3d.com/download/nvidia.shtml I know many people that have reported ALL issues with their Geforces and TNT's were solved when they installed those older drivers including issues that were unrelated to Combat Mission. With my Hercules Prophet II card I do not have to reboot in order to change FSAA settings but as noted above, that may be neccesary with some drivers/cards. Madmatt [ 08-02-2001: Message edited by: Madmatt ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcGuire Posted August 3, 2001 Author Share Posted August 3, 2001 Yeah, I should have mentioned that, sorry: it's a Win2K thing (apparently). And as much as I love(ed) CM, it don't love it enough to go back to Win98... Oh well. Thanks for the thoughts everybody. Guess I'll check in again in a few months, get the grumpy folks all stirred up, and keep my fingers crossed in the meanwhile. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBlaque Posted August 3, 2001 Share Posted August 3, 2001 Okee dokee, then. Why do I have NO problem with my Geoforce2 MX displaying CM properly? Hmmmm, I better check my driver version number again and make sure I DON'T update. (I should read the whole damn post the next time-- I have Win98 so I STILL won't update) [ 08-03-2001: Message edited by: LeBlaque ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted August 4, 2001 Share Posted August 4, 2001 JMac, your next post better contain the phrase "and I've decided to donate my Viper to that wonderful human being, a man whose presence lifts the world, a very close personal friend of mine, won't you all give him a warm welcome, yes ladles and jellyspoons, it's Doug Beman." DjB 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmatt Posted August 7, 2001 Share Posted August 7, 2001 Never mind...I thought the new beta 14.40 drivers fixed this issue once and for all but it seems they still have some graphic anomalies as well. Madmatt [ 08-07-2001: Message edited by: Madmatt ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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