Christmas present from Bob Woodward to John Kettler

[Stalins Organ]

If our planes are being remotely taken over from their pilots by manipulating their perception (two A-10 incidents Bearden documents; one pilot barely escaped; the other crashed), our people can have their behavior affected by broadcasting encoded information....

that little word at the start of the quote says it all...."if"...

You take such conditional statements as being fact when they are nothing of the sort.

the Bearden "documents" are nothing - they present no evidence at all. I could make a powerpoint slide of Kermit as the Emperor of India and it would be as useful!!

Sheesh!

[John Kettler]

Stalin's Organist,

Since I was practically blind with exhaustion when I wrote that, I chose not to get into another detailed discussion. The Weapon Slides present an overview. There is an in-depth discussion of the observables, what one pilot reported, and a placing of both events within the context of Soviet/Russian remote influencing work, work which I might add goes back to the 1920s, in the aforementioned FER DE LANCE 2. While one can indeed make a briefing about anything, I happen to know, having done the research and read the reports and books, that it's not made up. Bearden has spent decades investigating this, to include practically building himself a home in the Russian scientific literature on a host of cutting edge topics. He can quote chapter and verse from those papers with the same ease you recite your name. He has written a shelf of books on what the Russians routinely teach their physicists that's simply not taught here, of the fundamental and fatal defects in our core models of many things, and what we gave up in so doing in terms of whole categories of capabilities. I think evaluating Bearden without reading his books is worse than the story of the blind men and the elephant. At least they took experimental data!

Regards,

John Kettler

[Pak_43]

It's by no means as easy as you might think,

No, but it's certainly not as hard as you make it look...

Then, I have to somehow boil down whole shelves of material (my psi library runs several linear feet) and put it into a context understandable not only by people who probably have no real familiarity with the subject but who may be strongly opposed to it for any number of reasons.

Then stop shotgunning links that don't reinforce your point, keep your links focussed on the point your trying to make and stop wandering off into completely irrelevant side shows.. was their any point in raising the whole Churchill / mason / druid / satanic practices thing? Has it made your point any clearer? Is it any more focussed? I think a quick reread of the thread will show you that it hasn't...

Anyway I've made my point I think, up to you to think on what I've said, I'd say your approach so far has been a dismal failure, perhaps time to try a new one?

[John Kettler]

Pak_43,

Churchill got dragged into this as a result of a mention about occult warfare in Britain during WW II. His own involvement in the occult was directly relevant to the Black-Team scenario, about which I'd never heard, but I was well aware of his Masonic connection. I wasn't aware of the Druid angle, though. Think of the whole thing as a sidebar to the main topic, military application of psi.

To return the main narrative, a quick summary would go something like: The Russians and Eastern Euopean countries have a tradition of military use of psi which documentable back to WW I in at least one instance, in the form of hypnotically aided RV which was used for battlefield intelligence purposes. As time progressed, and more experiments of various sorts were done, it became apparent that other military potentials existed. Vassiliev demonstrated remote hypnotic control, for example, circa 1920, but what really seems to have gotten the by then Soviet government's attention was what the great telekineticist Nina Kulagina was able to do, most particularly when it came to being able to stop and start and frog's heart, then interfere with that of a living man. In turn, this seems to have set loose a range of efforts to identify, classify, categorize, explain and duplicate the phenomenon, either by finding additional psychics, amplifying whatever energies were being created, or developing standalone means so that no psychic was needed. Though at times things were relatively open, which is how PSYCHIC DISCOVERIES BEHIND THE CURTAIN was able to be written, this triggered a major security flap, resulting in large scale official Soviet concealment of the research and the researchers, as well as the progressive takeover by the KGB of many of the research establishments. The book, though, was sufficient to alarm American officials, resulting in a series of classified assessments and triggering what I think were entirely valid concerns the Soviets had stolen a march on us. They had. Out of that concern came a great deal of U.S. work, officially on RV, but the evidence points to blacker matters, too. There's little reason to doubt, based on the accounts I've found and presented, that the Soviets "went there," using condemned prisoners as targets of various psi attacks and carefully assessing the results, which were horrific.

The other part of this equation, and I'm simplifying here, was the development of the new mother science (the major breakthrough that Stalin demanded, or else) that eventual Nobel Laureate in Physics, Petr Kapitsa, called Energetics. The story is discussed at length in Bearden's FER DE LANCE books, but for our purposes it is sufficient to note that there was a splendid coming together of not kosher per dialectical materialism research on the one hand and branches of the new science which were exploring anything and everything having to do with energy systems. In our case, that daughter science, if you will, was called Bio-Energetics, and it was from this marriage came unholy spawn, the very technologies that allow horrific things to be done by people who think, in many cases, they're functioning normally. While we argued in the West over whether psi existed, the Soviets were out measuring frequencies, running lab tests, searching for every angle to enhance performance in a number of psi fields, and basically weaponizing what they learned. Shall resume this in my next post.

Regards,

John Kettler

[John Kettler]

Pak_43,

Expanding on my theme a bit, Energetics seems to draw on two major informational streams: the work of Nikola Tesla and the black program SS work on things like radar phase conjugation, RAM and similar. Putting the two together produced some astounding results. The German radar scientist Hellmann, who was captured and forced to work in Russia for years after the War, for example, described seeing the aftermath of an energy weapon which could freeze entire areas in an instant. That might sound crazy if you don't understand the EM theory that Tesla used and that the Germans seem to have also discovered. This is an aether based Unified Field Theory, if you will, made possible because whole portions of EM theory as written by Maxwell were still present, rather than "simplified out" as happened in the West. These allowed two major types of action at a distance: adding energy and subtracting it, with the results being tied to the magnitude of the forces employed and the rate at which they were applied. The basic modes were thus exothermic (pumping energy into a target or target area) and endothermic (removing energy). Using this thought model, we can then see that Hellmann is describing a revolutionary weapon, of the type Bearden calls scalar, in the rapid endothermic mode. One can drop temperatures just enough to stress components, one can freeze things rock solid in an instant, one can even create something called a "cold explosion," and Bearden painstakingly documents several in his books and briefings. Conversely, adding energy can warm, melt certain material only, or annihilate. It is even possible to kill people so thoroughly that bodies don't even decay--everything dies--yet leave not a mark on them. Further, since this is NOT standard EM propagation, but in fact, per Maxwell's original, unbutchered theory explicitly embodies what we'd call a hyperdimensional component, what works to keep out normal EM, a Faraday cage, is useless. The same holds true for surge protectors. Standard models can't keep out the energy. Larry Park, who used to run a massively parallel (1024 PCs hooked together) processor, learned this the hard way when, despite his best technical efforts, he kept having hard drive controllers burnt out. Following comprehensive evaluation of every possible source, he eventually determined that the culprit was Earth emissions and went on to develop specialized detection gear. You see, Earth is a scalar emitter (Tesla called them "standing waves), and you can see here how the scalar pulse not only penetrates all the shielding on the seismometer but fries the seismometer. This is essentially what was happening to the theoretically superbly protected from current surge hard drives.

http://www.terraresearch.net/articles/ZapSeismo1_article.htm

IOW, the energy, or removal thereof, occurs instantaneously at/in the target, completely bypassing normal shielding, to include Tempest for military computers.

The applications of this core technology, when coupled with the vast knowledge amassed by the Soviets/Russians of what makes us function as people, provided the basis for forms of attack which can unhinge even standard Nuclear Era fail-safe methods, absent specific counter provision implementation.

Time now to show how the pieces come together, and bear in mind that for a very long time not only was the West clueless, but provably so, as evidenced by a whole series of acts of war carried out in such a way as to prove to the Soviets we absolutely didn't get it. I previously cited one formerly Top Secret document on the Moscow microwave matter to make my point, but it's now time to fold in some other elements. Take Remote Influencing, to that add the Kaznacheyev "death photon" work (the repeated 17,000 times experiment showing disease and death could be transmitted by EM), to that add the HAM frequency Woodpecker radars, which have an overt function and a slew of covert ones via scalar mode. Skipping, for purposes of discussion, a host of other military capabilities, one is left with the means to, inter alia: Discretely target an individual, defined group, facility, etc., with anything from a cocktail of weak but nonetheless immune system triggering disease overlays, so debilitating the target that when a real attack comes in its effectiveness is greatly multiplied; generate lassitude, unrest, violence and so forth at will; kill personnel at will absent Dead Man arrangements on retaliatory weaponry, and/or take control of one or more personnel via remote means in order to defeat "insane fuzing" modes, which rely on personnel actively intervening in order to PREVENT a strike from being launched. Such a peculiar method is dictated by the ability of scalar weapons to kill all personnel instantly. This is by no means the entire list, but it begins to show what's possible.

Remember, the Russian work on Remote Influencing goes back to 1920. Their knowledge of the human body and its energy systems is profound. They know how to reach various parts of the brain, how to produce various mental states, and know how to combine the information transfer technology with a psychic who "runs" the targeted subject. If that sounds crazy, please note that Vassiliev in 1920 demonstrated just such control over a girl miles away, issuing psychic commands for her to do various things, including coming to his lab. They were the first to truly weaponize scalar technology, and with their Warsaw Pact allies, were probably the first, in modern times at least, to develop psychotronic weaponry. For our purposes, consider psychotronic weaponry to be capable, in a specific task, of doing what a trained psychic can do, but without needing a psychic.

As many commentators have noted, the Russians are masterful chess players, and they bring this approach to other areas, such as weapon development. Thus, as these various capabilities have been developed and tested, they also get tested in the real world, not just to see how well they work there, but to also see whether we understand what they're doing. Thus, we have the nonrotting bodies in Afghanistan, submarines that lose depth control and sink helplessly to the fatal bottom, while the companion vessel on the surface has every electronic system rendered nonfunctional for several hours, after which it's fine; glowing scalar domes (what SF types call force fields) over Sary Shagan (Soviet ABM test center) and seen by muj in the Hindu Kush and airline pilots alike, cold explosions positioned (rose to 60,000 feet) so they'd be unmissable by airline pilots and impossible for ocean scientists to ignore, etc. And let's not forget the fact that before the Challenger disaster the Soviet trawlers fled the area at speed and that night, our intel reports a great celebration at KGB headquarters over a successful active measure. Normally, the trawlers are constantly underfoot and seek any and every opportunity to not merely collect data but snag launch debris for later analysis. Grisly as it sounds, these were combat trials that led to the serial production of scalar weapons,

It is against this background, then, that we have to look at what happened to our A-10s. As indicated earlier, the combination of various scientific discoveries with new technology created the possibility of applying Remote Influencing in a novel way which would allow the defeat of insane fuzing and similar schemes, albeit in an expensive and complex manner. Imagine "running" a human being with, say, 30 functions at once being handled, each with a dedicated operator and complex transmitter. We know that the brain is an EM emitter, with different frequencies associated with different functions. See, for example, the previously cited work of Dr. Ross Adey, as well as what's said about it by the Chicago Research Group. We know that every single person on the planet possesses a unique frequency, called by U.S. intel types a Prima and that the means to collect it will fit nicely in an attache case for covert collection. Details are in Hayakawa's book, in the Appendices I mentioned.

With scalar technology, what can be done at close range can just as easily be done from afar, and that's where the phase conjugation comes in. The Woodpecker radars have OTH capability and are positioned to place a nice grid over the U.S. , find a lone plane over a gunnery range, "tickle" it with a very weak signal to establish contact, after which the first psychic switches on, connects with the pilot's mind, induces a hynagogic state, then with amplified psychic commands, begins to progressively establish control, starting first with perceptions and working up from there hierarchically, adding functional area controllers as needed.

Don't blow the game by suddenly taking over the pilot's hands, for instance. Work first on the mind. Convince the pilot of those things which seem reasonable and work from there, constantly stretching the limits of what's actually occurring. This, BTW, is how you can get people to kill hypnotically and do all sorts of amazing things. You don't tell the subject to do something forbidden or impossible, you simply issue appropriate commands which have that effect. This really works. In my younger days, I had my sister lie across three folding chairs in such a way that she was fully supported by the center one, but with only the back of her head in contact at the top and her ankles resting on the last one. I told her her body was rigid, rigid as steel. Once I was sure she was hypnotized, I then carefully removed the chair in the middle, leaving almost all of her suspended in the air with nothing underneath. She not only was able to do this, but do it with a travel case added atop her stomach. Didn't so much as quiver. It was flatly impossible for her or me to do this or anything like it in normal wakefulness, and she didn't believe what I told her until I produced a witness to the "impossible" feat. Similar approaches have apparently let Super Soldiers jump from high eminences unharmed.

Once you have this kind of control, you can basically have the target do whatever you want.

In the case of Captain Button, he was taken control of for over an hour, during which he left the gunnery range while armed with bombs and cannon ammo, may've dropped ordnance (remember the frantic bomb hunt?) at what he thought was the gunnery range, then crashed. This was April 2, 1997. In the case of Captain Svoboda, from the same unit, they screwed with her up down perceptions, rather than her mission awareness. To a pilot, this is as fundamental and critical as it gets. She was flying a night attack training mission on May 27, 1997, was an experienced night flyer, rolled in, delivered ordnance, pulled out, found herself in a dive, then had her up down perception reversed, resulting in a power dive into the ground. Two experienced pilots, from the same unit! What are the odds of that being happenstance?

BTW, I think I erred earlier in that I may've indicated one pilot survived. None did. Per Bearden, these two strikes successfully proved both the strategic (Button) and tactical (Svoboda) effectiveness of Psycho-Energetics, a Branch of Bio-Energetics focusing on mind control. The incident and implications are discussed in FER DE LANCE 2, pp. 35-37. Since the object of these deadly tests was to prove the means by which to cause

personnel (thinking it was time for maintenance) to stand down weaponry which makes scalar seem tame, weaponry we don't have but Israel does, weaponry which in turn protects our vulnerable strategic weapon personnel from strikes which would literally kill everyone, and remember, our weapons are all under positive control, two-soldier simultaneous key launch, we're talking about a strategic attack which could destroy the U.S. outright. IOW, the insane fuzing on the Israeli weapon prevents the Russians from not only killing off all our launch crews but also, because of the nature of the attack, making the facilities completely unusable by humans for a protracted period. No replacing dead crews and launching!

Don't know how much HAARP and other U.S. action have changed the situation, but this was where things stood as of 2002, after which Bearden says he was visited by government agents and pointedly disinvited from continuing publicly discussing two topics: scalar/ more advanced energy weaponry and applied antigravity.

We know very little about the Soviet/Russian RV programs, but from the Ebon paper, it appears that they were getting results, on average, way better than ours, but they were doing it with psychics obtained via national search, whereas we, in typical American fashion, came up with a way to, essentially, mass produce them via training and special viewing protocols. Individually, ours weren't all that good, though we did have a few stand outs. That same paper is one of several sources indicating, unsurprisingly if you know anything about their approach to the similar in some ways issues of Radio-Electronic Combat (Electronic Warfare here), that the then Soviets had already identified Tesla coils as means of interfering with hostile RV. I've already mentioned that the lore of our intel/military RV records instances where our RVers were detected and split. From what I can tell, these were countersurveillance psychics.

There are whole societies devoted to psychotronics, but the evidence suggests the Soviet/Russian emphasis hasn't been on the healing applications. Rather, they seem to be geared toward negatively influencing, making ill, or even killing. Watch the four videos for a chilling overview not just of the psychotronic weapons, but also for the work done on psychic assassination. It appears we have our psychic killers as well, though few accounts exist (one I already listed as being in THE MARS RECORDS, the other in a piece on what an Illuminati insider said). The reported techniques seem similar, in that they involve working oneself into a fevered, rage filled state, then focusing that hate on the victim's heart, brain or other vulnerable point. The Ebon paper specifically discusses live testing of psychic kill techniques during the Soviet era on condemned men.

This completes my discussion for now on psi in warfare. I hope you find it informative. I'll be happy to answer specific questions, suggest further reading and the like.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Wilhammer]

Kettler, you have just about ruined this forum with this endless running drivel.

Would you please take it elsewhere?

Have you ever heard of blogging?

How about Ning, so you can create your own social network for this need of yours?

[John Kettler]

Wilhammer,

I have a counter suggestion. If you don't like what I write about, don't read my posts. This thread was addressed specifically to me. Not only have you done absolutely nothing to advance any of the several discussions, you have slanged me personally and done everything possible to hijack and derail the thread. My conclusions based on your behavior are that you will do just about anything to get attention on the one hand, while on the other, you seem to be very perturbed by ideas that don't fit your model of reality. Rather than being willing to reexamine your views, on the off chance I might actually be right, you are instead trying to stifle mine.

As to your other charge, I contribute, in all sorts of ways, to a bunch of the boards here, have since early 2001, and have thanks from those aided to prove it. I am in full compliance with the Forum Rules, and, while you're certainly entitled to your opinion, I remind you that one man's trash is another man's treasure. The mere fact that you don't like/don't understand/aren't interested in something doesn't automatically mean everyone else, on this globally frequented board, shares that view with you. You arrogate to yourself the decision who deserves to be allowed to post here and about what. Who died and made you king?!

Regards,

John Kettler

[gunnergoz]

You tell 'em, John. Well said.

[Wilhammer]

Wilhammer,

I have a counter suggestion. If you don't like what I write about, don't read my posts. This thread was addressed specifically to me. Not only have you done absolutely nothing to advance any of the several discussions, you have slanged me personally and done everything possible to hijack and derail the thread. My conclusions based on your behavior are that you will do just about anything to get attention on the one hand, while on the other, you seem to be very perturbed by ideas that don't fit your model of reality. Rather than being willing to reexamine your views, on the off chance I might actually be right, you are instead trying to stifle mine.

As to your other charge, I contribute, in all sorts of ways, to a bunch of the boards here, have since early 2001, and have thanks from those aided to prove it. I am in full compliance with the Forum Rules, and, while you're certainly entitled to your opinion, I remind you that one man's trash is another man's treasure. The mere fact that you don't like/don't understand/aren't interested in something doesn't automatically mean everyone else, on this globally frequented board, shares that view with you. You arrogate to yourself the decision who deserves to be allowed to post here and about what. Who died and made you king?!

Regards,

John Kettler

Yah, know John you are right. I am out of line asking you to leave.

Your judgment calls on my attention needs are every bit as wrong as my calling you a nut case, so don't think of yourself as some super genius who is above it all.

Have fun!

[Wilhammer]

But, John, in all fairness, I was asking you to leave - not telling you - offering my opinion, nothing more.

If my opinion is that you are a loon and I dislike you and your lies, well that is my opinion, right? Am I not entitled to it the same as you, or are you so perceptive and so superior, that the rules are only yours?

I think you are insulting - and that is my opinion - by your assumptions and your high handed style.

It is the same courtesy you ask of me - and further I suggested other avenues to spread your gospel.

This forum is limited for you, don't you see that?

Blogging is a very good way to spread your message, and you can make money from it.

Ning is a a free method to create your own social group, with Forums, inherent blogging, pictures, etc...very powerful stuff.

Your message, by your own statements, is too big, too important, to be limited to this NOT globally viewed forum - you might reach 50 people here with your messianic need, of which most find it insane drivel.

The methods I proposed would only help, not hurt, your mission to 'get the truth out' as you see it.

If you truly believe in your 'mission', are you not robbing the greater good by limiting your sermons to this irreverent little corner of the web?

I also believe I have stated many times that when I was younger I subscribed to your world view - well, it is not yours, but something very similar - I read and spoke of it all long ago, and then I came to the conclusion that it was all made up garbage designed either to make money or the rantings of crazy people, so I shifted my view.

So to say I have not considered it at all is plain wrong - you just failed to remember what I have told you before.

I have also praised several times your more solid research on other things that are 'conventional reality' based.

So, my asking you to leave is my wish; my calling your earthbopping stuff and conspiracy theories as crazy rantings guided by made up research ar opininion - just like yours.

So, if you wish me to consider your opinion that the world is full of crazy ignorant people who don't see things the way you do, then allow my opinion that singles out a minority, often of one, as equally if not far more ignorant.

Quid Pro Quo - you know that phrase, right?

[John Kettler]

Wilhammer,

The Forum Rules allow you to call my theories, but not me, loony. If you're going to accuse me of lying, best have your evidence in hand and bring a light bulb and lunch! Be prepared also for the consequences. I simply won't permit you to destroy my good name when I've done nothing wrong.

You don't realize this, but the BFC Forum is what Google deems an authority site. As such, it is heavily watched by the Web spiders and often comes back page one, sometimes first citation, on searches. Don't believe me? Type "syrian airborne" and see what you get. I did that in Google Images and got a bunch of CMSF screenshots. BFC's Alexa rating is a highly respectable 123, 867, and it has no less than 551 sites linking in.

While you do indeed offer some good suggestions, I think that if you're honest with yourself and the rest of us here, you'll be forced to concede that your suggestions are born less of desire to help me than to protect your own self-interest by removing a thorn in your intellectual/information model hide.

You just showed, the Verizon router thread, that you are capable of being helpful and polite. Further, to do what you do, as shown in your Profile, obviously takes considerable specialized training of one sort or another.

I find it fascinating, though, that you can praise me for my research in conventional, acceptable to you matters, but then you invoke magical thinking on your end by presuming that I somehow undergo some profound change when I write about the things which set your teeth on edge. I don't. I'm the same person, using the same methodology as before. The difference is the subject area is wholly unpalatable and unacceptable to you. In your mind, it apparently then follows that the evidence must be, too. Even more splendidly ironic is how utterly and profoundly irrational you, whose entire career is based on attention to detail, rigorous logic and dogged perseverance, become over my perceived faults, as seen by you. You lose it!

In closing, I'll let you chew on the thoughts of Lord Hill-Norton, GCB, Admiral of the Fleet, Former Chief of the Defense Staff and Chairman of the NATO Military Committee (1974-1977) in his foreword to Timothy Good's UNEARTHLY DISCLOSURE: "Indeed, it seems to me that the position of a few years ago (regarding the reality of UFOs and ETs) is reversed and that anyone who does not believe it should be required to prove why they do not, rather than the other way round."

In weighing the evidence, Wilhammer, whose views should I accept, you with your one-man rejectionist front to anything you dislike, or people from the highest levels of security who have come forward, literally risking life and limb in many cases, to tell what they know?

Should I set aside what was freely volunteered to me by people with known Agency connections during my aerospace days who told me of "space junk" not of terrestrial origin? Should I ignore the classified Intelligence Summaries I read in which the very subjects we officially "weren't studying" were clearly recorded? Should I ignore the dozens of credible witnesses who came forward at both the Disclosure Project

National Press Club Briefing and earlier in closed-door briefings to Pentagon, Congressional members and Intelligence officials, one of whom I spoke with personally, Dan Sherman, who was trained to communicate with ETs telepathically? Every last one said he or she was willing to give sworn testimony (some sans security oath immunity) regarding the reality of UFOs, ETs, crash recoveries, ET tech, etc.

Are you more credible than someone who was entrusted with nuclear weapons, than a Command Sergeant Major who worked in NATO Supreme Headquarters; than a stack of former military pilots; than intelligence officers from a bunch of alphabet soup entities, military radar operators, someone who brought concrete proof of FAA observation of UFOs on a radar (former FAA accident investigator), a Mexican air traffic controller who reports a mid-air between an airliner and a UFO; than Sgt. Clifford Stone who's not only seen the craft but dealt with recovered ETs, than Dr. Carol Rosin who worked for Dr. Von Braun and was told not only what was going on but what was to come?

Should we believe someone who's seen our version of ET tech in the form of the Alien Replica Vehicle, had it confirmed by his Congressman's office, and who describes the security flap that ensued when a colonel involved with the project saw the blueprint hanging on Burt Rutan's office wall and blew a gasket over an item which has since been repeatedly seen and filmed doing "impossible things" over Area 51, or should I believe you? Remember, it takes one and only one true account to topple your entire model of how the world is. Are we to assume that every one of these people is a liar, at a time when UFO disclosers were still and for that matter still are being killed off? When they could not only be fined heavily, but be jailed, stripped of pensions, rank and made into nonpersons?

http://www.disclosureproject.org/

I could go on and on, but your position, it would appear, faces an even deadlier blow, when it comes to the interviews at Project Camelot, for there, in some cases, Dan Burisch, for example, you have black project insiders speaking with full authorization to do so on certain topics. Worse for you, people who don't know him ("Henry Shelton") confirm his information point for point. Here, you can see people talk, sometimes for hours, about how they got into the programs, what they saw, how they feel about it, why they're, as a rule, breaking stringent security oaths in speaking out, yet speak out anyway.

http://www.projectcamelot.org

And what do we find over and over again portrayed? UFOs, ETs, UFO crash recoveries and technical exploitation, psi, time travel, teleportation, multiple covert entities at war with each other, mind control, suppressed technologies (included unlimited clean energy on demand and antigravity) which we've had since the Moon landing if not earlier, lunar bases, Mars bases, underwater bases, joint U.S. ET projects, Earth changes, weather wars and much more, much of it funded by black programs running into the trillions a year. Yes, trillions! Pretty much everything and anything which puts you into Low Earth Orbit is resoundingly confirmed. Further, I can tell you that I have spoken to sources who guarded some of the craft, were involved in crash retrievals, who know about the decades on end of murders to keep the secrets, and much more. They didn't find me, I found them. Some of them have not only been dealt with harshly but have told me they have a life expectancy of under half an hour if certain people ever succeed in locating them.

What a quandary! We have you in your increasingly lonely corner (majority of American adults believes in UFOs, with levels rising, not falling, as a function of formal education) frantically rolling "Attempt to disbelieve!" as a veritable parade of "impossibilities" not only goes past but stops and marks time right in front of you. On the other side, we have them (all the witnesses, evidence (including 10,000 landing trace cases), official government release of UFO data (France and Spain to name two) and Them!

What does Occam's Razor tell us about who's likely to be right?

Regards,

John Kettler

[JonS]

I simply won't permit you to destroy my good name

There is no requirement for me, Wil, FK, or anyone else to do that, even if we had the desire to. John, you long ago shat all over your own reputation with your constant repetition of loony theories, and the execrable way you go about building an 'argument'.

[Wilhammer]

Yes, no good name to destroy in this matter - in this you are full of yourself, Herr Kettler.

Besides, read what I post, will you?

Did I call you a liar?

No; I said you spread lies, 'your lies', but not that were you a liar. You subscribe to lies, and you seem to passionately believe them; so to you they are not lies, and that makes you no liar; but they are lies you use as facts...understood?

Your believe system is lunacy; your sources push lunatic dreams, but I have not called you a loon, have I, in the post you respond to? No, just staitng opinion - no one has handed me tablets from the mountain top on this, so they are hardly edicts.

No, I just stated my opinion, my righteous and for me absolutely true believe that your earth shaking and conSPAM is a house of sham - and indeed, I have an opinion that is mine on this, so back off and leave me alone, will you?

My Personal Reality you threaten each day as my being ignorant and blind; which from your world of distorted (my opinion) perception is the case - who is the boorish one?

I say you are, sir. You continue to push here weird science and bizarre speculation of things that saine people I know dismiss as rantings of the deranged, or the jokester - and those are my opinions and are shared by others.

So, to continue to challenge our perceptions base on apocraphyl heresay, reinforced with shotgun 'logic' and a deluge of words, well constructed on what I believe is a foundation of fantasy is trolling; bullying of the intellect - parade of dishonest shcolarship that challenges us to disprove that which is not even close to being proveable.

I challenge you sir to my honor my opinions on the common sense, observable, reality based world and consider for a time that perhpas, and in all likely hood, you are as wrong as anyone could be on these matters.

Just becuase you are on the fringe does not entitle you to Holy Status as to your self and beliefs.

It is my opinion you are completely off your rocker OR that you are a monumental clown pulling our collective legs for 7 years now, and that is an opinion I am entitled to, that you CANNOT prove to be incorrect, and that I am as entitled as you say you are to yours.

I am troubled by your continued insults of us for all you post about things that are wildly off the mark; they are harming my good name, and I would ask you to stop, but it will do no good.

So, please, continue, for there are those out there who laugh in your general direction, and enjoy oh so well.

ANd, I bet you cannot prove a single phyiscal law or the lack of its existence, nor can you honeslty say that I am 100% wrong on any of this; for our wolrd views are all wrong, for we are all limited in our understanding, but in my heart, in my opinions, in my world view, the things you sell here are dangerous snake medicine that harm and offer no help to anyone, except perhaps for calming the inds who those who cannot believe in Occam's Razor ot the Ture Physical World I honor and believe in.

Go ahead, try to prove it; you cannot.

You cannot win, you cannmot be correct, you cannot be harmed by my world perception, nor can I by yours, for mine is real, and yours is fact deficient.

All my opinion, and shared by billions, and ....

My God - a WEB SPIDER by GOOGLE makes this a Global Library of Congress Research Web Site??????

Can I have some of what you are smoking, Cheech?

[John Kettler]

Wilhammer,

"If my opinion is that you are a loon and I dislike you and your lies...." Direct quote from your earlier post. This seems to me to be quite different from saying something like "John, I strenuously disagree with your interpretation of X, Y and Z here, here , and here." Nor are you characterizing behavior, either.

Let's break down your thought here. The first part is dicey but may be within Forum Rules, but the second part is something else altogether "...and I dislike you and your lies." Not so many years ago, you could've been called out on the field of honor for far less, and I daresay there are still some places where this is true. I remind you of what you agreed to:

4. Members agree, through use of this service, that this Forum will not be used to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law.

Call your list of offenses in this connection long and growing! You have not only gone after me in threads that upset you, but have also repeatedly sniped at me in straightforward conventional ones, yet you preen yourself for the kudos you gave me in same. Yet despite your unstinting efforts to silence me and even drive me from the Forum, I'm still here. Somehow, chiefly because, I think, the Mods were busy getting new games done, you've gotten away with not one, but a stack of bannable offenses. Thus, for you to complain about my insulting you is chutzpah of the highest order. What gall! Frankly, I've treated you with infinitely more kindness, dignity and genuine compassion than you and your execrable behavior toward me merit. Alas for you! Your best, most ingenious and insidious efforts to get me to make the fatal slip have failed!

You demand to be treated with dignity and respect, but it's only a one way street, with the road running solely in your direction. You are certainly entitled to to your opinions, but that neither alters inconvenient reality (Disclosure Project alone has hundreds of credible witnesses ready to testify before Congress, under oath) nor entitles you to use me as your Internet doormat.

Mark my words, Wilhammer. The world is changing at a very rapid rate, and that which is intellectual holy writ to you is going to be progressively ripped asunder before your eyes.

The "impossible" will be in your face and very likely overhead in plain view.

Have you not noticed that even Larry King's got UFO witnesses on, some going clear back to Roswell, and that he's not letting the debunkers blather and bluster to stop the witnesses and UFO researchers from being heard? That alone should tell you something. Are we to believe that ALL the hundreds and hundreds of UFO witnesses are crazy and that you're right? That governments spent years secretly amassing UFO data, made the whole thing up, then after much demand, released their mythical findings to the public? That the guy who built the Apollo communication system was wrong? He and several HAMs with VHF gear heard the Apollo astronauts report encountering UFOs on the Moon. Huge ones! That Gordon Cooper lied to the UN about seeing whole formations of UFOs? Did NORAD somehow find out that I was coming to visit Air Force Intelligence and produce an Intelligence Summary just for me that had multiple UFOs mentioned? Since my clearance was good for a year, this means that there would've had to be one prepared for every possible day I might come. Rather strains credibility, doesn't it?

Should we believe the shaken veteran cops who candidly admit that psychics came up with key case solving evidence on cases they themselves had hit a wall with, or should we believe you? Should top executives stop relying on their gut decisions (an intuitive, as opposed to rational, process) to make critical business decisions, just on your say so? Are you brave enough to attempt to ignore feminine intuition, as well as the huge body of evidence showing women know something's happened to loved ones, often waking up screaming, way before being notified? Shall we disregard the advance detailed intel and notice we got on the monster Typhoon sub via RV, to include the very accurate call on its rollout date, merely because that doesn't sit well with you? Maybe those who gained fortunes through prospectors using RV should have to give back their claims, since it so vexes you? Perhaps all of us who feel that twinge of danger, that sense of "Maybe I shouldn't go here today" should just ignore it, then we won't be around to harass you with a common use of psi?

I could list dozens more examples, Wilhammer, but I guess you'll just have to go through the same intellectual harrowing I went through for many years as one deeply entrenched belief system after another was torn to pieces before my unbelieving, utterly resistant eyes. People told me things that it took me two years to accept, in some cases. Even then, I had to be dragged kicking and screaming to realizations I didn't want and truths I found horrifying. It's scary, to be sure, but the world after such a process is infinitely richer than before. There is infinitely more to see, and know, and experience!

Regards,

John Kettler

[Wilhammer]

Squirrel Logic....

[Stalins Organ]

Should we believe the shaken veteran cops who candidly admit that psychics came up with key case solving evidence on cases they themselves had hit a wall with

got any sources for this, and for psychic powers actually BEING the reason, rather than jsut someone different looking at the evidence?

We've for a show here in NZ called "Sensing Murder" where Psychics get an hour prime TV time (which means weeks of actual time) to "solve" a murder.

So far they are 0 from 20......none of their "leads" have ever turned up anything at all, except a waste of police time, and none of them have won lotto.

[Cerebrus]

Any guess what this "secret weapon" is?

[Stalins Organ]

Can't tell you - it's a secret.

[Wilhammer]

"Members agree, through use of this service, that this Forum will not be used to post any material which is knowingly false"

Well, there ya go; been breaking commandment 1 for frickin' ever, Herr Kettler.

[John Kettler]

Stalin's Organist,

There's a show here in the States, called "Psychic Detectives" on CourtTV, which features an array of psychics who have terrific track records working with police and related authorities. One of them's even a cop himself, Phil Jordan, which is interesting because one of our top RVers, Pat Price, had been a cop. Here's the testimonial page, though for one of the psychic detectives seen frequently on the show, Noreen Renier. As you can see, a great many police and forensic types have gone on record here regarding her signal contributions to solving otherwise hopeless cases.

http://noreenrenier.com/testimonials.htm

As luck would have it, this transcript of "The Larry King Show" on psychic detectives has both Noreen Renier and Phil Jordan, the sworn Peace Officer I mentioned earlier.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0412/03/lkl.01.html

You may also find the slim oversize book PSYCHICS: The Investigators and spies who use paranormal powers, by Sarah Moran, of interest. Much of it is devoted to psychic detectives and the cases they solved. The book is heavily illustrated, with numerous ground truth and overhead color photos.

Wilhammer,

Suggest you look up definition of "knowingly." Clearly, you need a refresher course!

Regards,

John Kettler

[JonS]

You've been told the information you post is false, yet you persist in posting it. That fits the definition of "knowingly posting false information".

The other option, I suppose, is that you're such a gormless, gullible, twat that you've no idea that what you're posting is false.

Your choice, John. Are you a liar breaking the rules, or are you a gormless twat?

[John Kettler]

JonS,

You were warned once, and yet you keep dancing on the razor's edge by deliberately baiting and provoking me. I refer you to the limerick about the pirate named Bates as to the likely outcome for you of continuing on this course.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Wilhammer]

Again, John, READ CAREFULLY:

Jons offered up two choices as possibilities; he did not actually label you either.

Besides, you have an option you have invoked before; suck it up and ignore those points you do not like, as you do with your version of the 'truth'.

You've proven great ability at ignoring or omitting counter factual to your views and prophetic need; why can't you do it in these cases?

Why are you so afraid of us? Are we close to making you crack out of your glass house?

[Pak_43]

What does Occam's Razor tell us about who's likely to be right?

Everything done by psychics (the original point of the thread, right?) has been replicated in controlled circumstances by people using non-psychic abilities...

Occam's Razor therefore tells us that it is more likely that psychics are fakes, who use the same techniques as those who replicate their performance...

I really would not invoke Occam's Razor to defend the position of psychics John, it's a non-starter...

The plural of anecdote is not data.....

[Wilhammer]

Facts and Data

Do no apply

One iota

For Psychics Lie

=======

LPCP Said;

"Alas for you! Your best, most ingenious and insidious efforts to get me to make the fatal slip have failed!"

Does that not read like a comic book arch criminal talking too much before he tries to dispatch the hero?; like the Riddler vs Batman....