Theathre of War HOW IT IS...

[Pike]

Can you tell c1 to make ToW playable please? I am deeply disappointed with how you treat your customers nowadays. Realesing games that isn't even fixed afterwards. I guess I stop buy games from you and tell all others I know play your games to consider it also.

TOW's multiplayer is baddest I have ever seen. And that was why I bought the game. It's a kids making. The first year multiplayer didn't even work and when it works it turns out to be a really bad one without any enjoyment.

TOW's campagins are a mess that lets tanks hunt infantry in trenches drive trough frontlines and crush AT-guns bf they react... the airplanes hunt infantry in cower and you must arm every soldier by yourself. The AI soldier got no brain it seems. OLD CLOSE COMBAT WAS ALOT BETTER! AND THAT WAS MADE 10 YEARS AGO!

take it to your heart!

Pike

[Thadius]

I haven't played any of the previous games like Combat mission so I don't know how good they are compared to TOW, but I really like this game at least from a singleplayer point of view. Its one the few games I know about that has playable fully modeled French and Polish units without it being a mod. I get some of the things you mentioned like planes being able to spot a pin from thousands of feet in the air, but most of the time they seem to strafe my tanks or AT guns.

Could tanks not hunt infantry in trenches? A good HE from a flank would rip them apart really. My AT guns are always micro'd to target the nearest target when tanks start getting too close for comfort for me really.

My only complaint is that infantry run out of ammo too quickly for my tastes, but that is realistic and there are always some dead to get a new gun from so thats not too bad

[MG TOW]

Can you tell c1 to make ToW playable please? I am deeply disappointed with how you treat your customers nowadays. Realesing games that isn't even fixed afterwards. I guess I stop buy games from you and tell all others I know play your games to consider it also.

TOW's multiplayer is baddest I have ever seen. And that was why I bought the game. It's a kids making. The first year multiplayer didn't even work and when it works it turns out to be a really bad one without any enjoyment.

TOW's campagins are a mess that lets tanks hunt infantry in trenches drive trough frontlines and crush AT-guns bf they react... the airplanes hunt infantry in cower and you must arm every soldier by yourself. The AI soldier got no brain it seems. OLD CLOSE COMBAT WAS ALOT BETTER! AND THAT WAS MADE 10 YEARS AGO!

take it to your heart!

Pike

I think you have a problem with the way the missions are cooked up moreso than the tactical side of things. Some missions are scripted tight and don't leave much positioning for the player. The units are very well balanced. Yes AT guns are like glass but they can kill with a high rate of fire just as easily if put in the right place. Infantry are given AT grenades that work a little better in the game than real life, for game balance I spose. True it does take too many clicks to pick up weapons and ammo.

[danjeje]

For a better game you need the mods you can found.

JSH1.2.2, Tartari's Small Arms Sound Mods and Small Arms Mod.

JSH tweaked the visibility system and the Small Arms Mod tweaked the small arms.

But the AI system is a big problem that need a fix.

[Thadius]

A question about the campaign here. I played through the Polish and French campaign and everything is great, just started the Russian campaign and everytime my tanks are hit the crew are mostly dead from 1 hit. I am using the latest patch and the JSH 1.2.2 mod, and it just seems like Soviet tanks are useless for keeping the crew alive. I can barely get a shot off before a Pz IV kills the gunner and driver in a single hit. So far this has been for all tanks I use even the t.34 mod41. Is this a bug or is the ammo type used by the germans in the early stages capable of butchering the crew like this, and I have to try and flank the enemy more often?

[JDski]

I've had a hard time in the same area. I knocked the tracks of a Tiger tank once, but after that I must have had to hit it 30 times to finish it off.

Of course that doesn't happen when I'm playing as Germans and have a Tiger.

There are alot of details in this game that don't become obvious right away that give you advantages. I'm hoping with more experience I'll learn more of them. I have learned many already, so that's leading me to think it's something I'm just not taking into consideration.

I'm still trying to figure out what Numpad + (go to signal source) command does.

[Thadius]

I know what you mean when the AI tanks take forever to knock out and when you have them your crew die from a slight breeze and the tank falls apart after crossing a field

For the time being I am going to play it with the ignore campaign loss option on so I can play the other levels, but it is still annoying when you can't do one you know should be an even battle.

[Gnasher]

annoying when you can't do one you know should be an even battle.

Edit the mission then, that's what I did, if a mission seemed unbalanced to me I just jumped into the editor & evened things up to my liking.

[JDski]

I know what you mean when the AI tanks take forever to knock out and when you have them your crew die from a slight breeze and the tank falls apart after crossing a field

For the time being I am going to play it with the ignore campaign loss option on so I can play the other levels, but it is still annoying when you can't do one you know should be an even battle.

Hehe, I switched to ignore campaign loss after the first mission I lost and it ended my campaign. I figured just because you loose a battle doesn't mean it's the end of the war.

I wanted to learn how to play the game and not let it feel stagnated. Now that I understand it more I'm looking forward to replaying the campaigns over.

I've learned to really take advantage of using the terrain and cover much more effectively, and scout out the enemy and routes to good places to launch attacks from. I usually take a sniper with good scouting abilities and have him hold fire to do my scouting.

I sneak him up to a bush where he can stand up in and get a good observation of the enemy and stay hidden.

This lets me get my main force in a good concealed position that's good to launch the attack from before I even fire a shot. You have to make sure your main force is set to hold position as soon as they get where you want them because they'll mess up your plans and start attacking on their own as soon as your scout spots an enemy.

Often I found that just scouting around starts triggers that sometimes bring you reinforcements or air, arty and mortar support before you've even started the engagement.

You can take out enemy arty positions pretty easy when your scout has spotted them and you have a few tanks or so just over the crest of a hill. You can then bring them over with HE rounds loaded and do an area fire on the enemy arty.

Once the enemy arty is silenced, you can cut loose your scout/sniper on the troops.

If you opened up reinforcements, you'll have them already prepared and in a better position to resist counter attacks much more effectively too.

With tanks, I usually used the column formation instead of the line formation because they are too spread out with the line formation. Once they are in position, I just have all of them together do a rotation towards the enemy and then have them hold position. You can then switch to the free formation and advance them in a tighter line formation this way.

I've also discovered the quick save (F5) feature recently. It has been a big help.

Once I get confident enough I won't use it to my advantage anymore, switch to harder difficulties and eventually maybe even turn off ignore campaign loss.

[Dietrich]

Good points, JDski about observation and taking advantage of terrain. It works in ToW because it works in real life. =)

Yesterday I was playing a mission (one I created, loosely based on Franz Staudegger's Knight's-Cross-winning solo interception of 50+ Guards T-34s on July 8, 1943) in which my elite-crewed Tiger was in hull-down position on the reverse slope of a hill, facing north. In the distance were a dozen or so T-34s driving westward at about 1000 yards' range. Because of the trees and the undulations of the ground between the T-34s and my Tiger, the Tiger could see only one or two of them at a time; sometimes it would get one in its sights, fire, and by the time the shell was on its way the T-34 had winked out of sight, so it was anyone's guess if the shell had hit its mark. What was surprising, though, was that apparently the T-34s halted to return fire or changed course to head towards the Tiger -- perhaps the crews weren't certain where the fire was coming from; sometimes in ToW you take fire from someplace but the thing firing is effectively invisible.

And I didn't even know there was a quick-save! lol

[medlinke]

I think the biggest hurdle people have to overcome is the speed of the game.

The box and gameplay mechanic tout RTS. RTS speed is 100% unacceptable for this game. You have to take your time. There is no effective "rush" in this game whatsoever.

The ability to use a single soldier lets you take that time to scout. Use your weapon ranges appropriately as well. That Shreck can't take you out if you're farther out pegging the trench with your tank's coax gun.

It is really hard to modify the gameplay pace to set yourself up for success. Just keep in mind that you can accelerate the gamespeed while you're waiting for your troops to assemble in the right spots. Get your AT guns into position if you're expecting a counter-attack, etc.

I honestly believe the 99% of the problems people are running into is just perception of what they should be doing. While the game mechanic is RTS don't push your units. Take your time, scout, use the terrain, take advantage of the wide open spaces to maneuver. Use combined arms wisely.

It takes time, but I think you'll get the hang of it.

[synchro]

I think the biggest hurdle people have to overcome is the speed of the game.

The box and gameplay mechanic tout RTS. RTS speed is 100% unacceptable for this game. You have to take your time. There is no effective "rush" in this game whatsoever.

The ability to use a single soldier lets you take that time to scout. Use your weapon ranges appropriately as well. That Shreck can't take you out if you're farther out pegging the trench with your tank's coax gun.

It is really hard to modify the gameplay pace to set yourself up for success. Just keep in mind that you can accelerate the gamespeed while you're waiting for your troops to assemble in the right spots. Get your AT guns into position if you're expecting a counter-attack, etc.

I honestly believe the 99% of the problems people are running into is just perception of what they should be doing. While the game mechanic is RTS don't push your units. Take your time, scout, use the terrain, take advantage of the wide open spaces to maneuver. Use combined arms wisely.

It takes time, but I think you'll get the hang of it.

i agree. sometimes u have to give up a tank or squad to have a sniper but even a 2 man AT rifle squad with HIGH scouting crawling forward bush to bush, holding fire [as long as the bloody fire stays held!] can let u know where the enemy is. it's the most important thing. KNOW where your enemy is. impatience has cost me many tanks and troops.

i usually create a crap [disposable] squad with a leader w high scout skill and sneak them up on their bellies thru bushes with better marksmen type squad 50-100m behind. soon as they find enemy, they wait whilst marksmen squad move to a flank [all holding fire, of course]. when the marksmen squad are in good position, use the crap squad to open fire [micro manage crawling smgs forward while rifles keep up fire].

while all this is going on u keep creeping your good squad close as possible and open fire. cos they fire from better position and are decent marksmen they are more likely to score hits and, hopefully, draw fire...

THAT'S when you have your crap squad dash/assault the enemy [and, with luck, any guys u crawled forward might be able to grenade them].

you do take losses, it's unavoidable, but try to keep your squad commander alive. soon as he is wounded get him to hit the ground and hide. you NEED him alive. the last thing you want is a squad about to jump into enemy trench [and they are almost panicking!] and they lose their bottle because your squad ldr and his 2nd are both dead.

soon as i get one assaulter in the trench i get the marksmen squad to charge the trench too. it often causes some enemy to panic.

secret tho.. sneaking. good scouts[ i spend all points on scouts for infantrymen with the occasional gunner/driver points tho that takes micro managing too far - making sure inf with gunner skill is near an abandoneed AT gun? too fiddly]. after 3 or 4 missions u usually have quite a few inf with 100 scouting and KNOWING where the enemy is helps a lot in winning. basically. they're scouting for the tanks. having even one tank with an MG against an enemy w no tanks or AT left means u got a huge advantage.

[Pike]

Where did this discussion end? Please... Sigh... no real fanboys around but alot of confused players that takes the thread to new highs....

WHAT ABOUT CAMO-AT guns that got SMASHED BY A TANK FROM BEHIND... LOL And airplanes shooting infantry in trenches... or a multiplayer that looks like BlitzKreig but without the realism that that game has!

BAD BAD GAME made for non realistic RTS players...

[daisy]

The game is imo not unplayable, the missions are difficult and challenging and the graphics ok for an older game.

And yes I play Blitzkrieg and all of the expansions so i do know a good RTS game when i see one.

TOW is imo one of the more realistic RTS games around, but you are entitled to your opinion as i am to mine.

[abaris]

Personally I think this game is pretty good - and realistic.

There's one flaw though and the game shares that with most every Real time strategy I know of. And this flaw is the defense missions. After the initial setup, the only thing you can do, is basically sit back and survive the AIs rush.

That's why I liked the combat mission series best. The mixture between Real time and turn based made for the best kind of realism.

[WiCkd1]

I love the game but dissapointed in that most battles seem to take forever to clean up as everyone seems out of ammo and with no apparent timer its an emmense pain to eventually win with that tank gunner equipped with a sharp spoon,also some map triggers apparently dont happen and the next wave never appears..i mean ive waited over half an hour and..nothing,i also feel i should if i choose have that extra tank because i can afford it or have those captured tanks i painstakingly aquired last battle because i deserve to,the spending of points is just so restrictive,is there anyway i can mod this game so i can change these things as it prevents me playing it as much as i would like to.

[daisy]

Yes you can increase the buying points available in a mission. There is a thread somewhere about that i think.

[WiCkd1]

Thanks for heads up daisy but cant seem to see any threads that seem to address changing costs in editor,im hoping to get some time this weekend to look more into this,oh and i agree with you that i think this is one of the better RTS WW2 games out there,just wish there was a campain strategy map as well.

[Sneaksie]

You can just open Mission.xml file of any mission in Notepad and change the value in the <Cost> string. Changing unit limits for the mission is more complicated though.

[WiCkd1]

Hey thanks sneaksie,i play alot of online games and its always nice to see devs helping out in the forums,may i ask if you guys are looking at adding a campain style map dimension to future games ie like medieval total war that adds a risk style map with resources,cities ect that the player can develope then build his own armies and take that to the battle map? i really think that will take IC into a much larger market and do the fantastic work you guys have done to date justice.