Help with facing pls?

[Billy Riley]

I've created a scenario. I've assigned objectives. I've placed troops in 3D map mode.

But when I come to play it, (I play as blue), the enemy are facing AWAY from the blue force and my blue force is easily taking them out. The red force doesn't seem to want to fire back, and they are facing back towards there own lines (which may account for why they are not retaliating).

As I said, I've placed the units in 3D map and checked the facing...they all face toward the blue setup zone. But when I come to play, they are not retaliating and not facing the blue force.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thx

[ChrisND]

I occasionally have this problem as well.

[Paper Tiger]

Check your Blue/Red board edges in the Mission paramaters. Whatever it's set at, reverse it. See if that helps.

[Billy Riley]

By board edges, do you mean N,S,E,W? And, if so, when I'm looking at the map in the map designer, I presume top is North?

[Billy Riley]

Is it because I haven't baked the scenario?

I didn't want to bake it because I will be making loads of changes to it as I play test it.

[Webwing]

I remember somebody else had a similar problem.

Use the search option of the forum, and see if you can find it.

If you paint setup areas and place them there with initial setup orders you should have no problem. Provided you faced them in the direction you want initially.

I never had that so I can't help you much here, sorry.

-

[Billy Riley]

Well, I removed the RED units I purchased and saved the game. I then reloaded it, added RED units and deployed them, with a facing towards the BLUE forces.

But still when I load the game to play, I play as blue. As soon as my unit spots a red unit, I click the red unit and TAB, so I am seeing the red unit from it's facing, and they are definitely facing away from the blue force...which is why they're not firing (although one would think they may turn and fire back, regardless of where the enemy are coming from!)

Also, when I select all my blue forces and march them forwards, once the pass the red forces, all hell breaks loose. So the fact that the blue forces are being ignored up until they are in LOS (even though they have been firing at red!!). So it's clear that the units are facing the wrong way.

I've tried the "Red Friendly Area" of the map on several different settings, but to no avail.

I've spent a day on creating this scenario and, tbh, it's not worth carrying on.

[handihoc]

I've mentioned this problem from a player's point of view elsewhere. I've often come across enemy forces facing away from me when they were obviously intended to be facing in my direction, waiting for my advance.

Can't work out whether it's a bug in the coding or the inadvertent fault of the scenario designer not placing units with full specifications for facing etc.

Hopefully, if the former, BFC will be addressing it now. If the latter, maybe clearer instructions are needed to clarify it for designers.

[ChrisND]

Originally posted by handihoc:

Can't work out whether it's a bug in the coding or the inadvertent fault of the scenario designer not placing units with full specifications for facing etc.

I am fairly certain that that the AI overrides whatever facing commands the player gives during setup.

[Webwing]

Originally posted by Normal Dude:

I am fairly certain that that the AI overrides whatever facing commands the player gives during setup. [/QB]

Not in my tests it doesn't.

Can you reproduce it?

I don't think this is a bug.

Billy Riley,

If you assign groups and paint deployment areas and paint AI setup areas correctly you should be fine.

Just check the whole process from start to finish.

Don't despair!

Creating scenarios can be frustrating sometimes but once you get the hang of it, it's extremely rewarding.

If nothing else works send it my way and I'll take a look.

-

[ May 26, 2008, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: Webwing ]

[handihoc]

Webwing, you may be right, but it happened to me in one of your Ghost scenarios. Can't remember the number or name, but it's the one where the Blue player has to take out a couple of occupied buildings and a hilltop then advance to that tricky ridge and descend into the village below.

In that battle there were some Red squads on the far side, sitting on the wrong side of a low wall, facing offmap. They were under fire from my guys on the ridge for quite a while, but they didn't turn around or return fire.

It has happened since, admittedly to my knowledge only once, with a single mg squad in Paper Tiger's Hasrabit campaign.

I'm not knowledgeable about setting up from a designer's pov, and it would appear that the problem isn't reproduced for every player, which suggests it's an AI problem ie a bug.

Can't say for certain, but it IS something that needs to be checked.

[Webwing]

handihoc,

I'm really upset with you.

I didn't expect this from you. Now I'll have to admit I made a mistake in the mission!!!

Now seriously, in the last version I did misplace the last Red reinforcement. That's probably what you are talking about.

Since they would be placed in the AI setup I left them in their default positions BUT forgot to change the facing!!!!!!

So they face west.

When they get into the mission as reinforcements for Red they are placed on the far north of the map. They should be facing south then, not west.

That's probably what you saw.

By the way I only saw it now that you mentioned it!!!

Doing missions and campaigns takes a lot of testing and polishing and some mistakes do happen. Still I do apologize for this one!

There are some issues in the editor but most of the time I have found myself to blame for things that go wrong!

[ May 26, 2008, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: Webwing ]

[handihoc]

Sorry, mate. I do apologise.

I still don't understand why they don't turn around and face the enemy after they come under fire, though. I mean, they do eventually, if they live long enough, but I seem to remember it took them a few turns.

Also, in Hasrabit, I had to restart the mission due to my initially pathetic performance. First time in I remember the offending mg opened fire on me. Second time it didn't, and that's when I discovered it was facing the wrong way. So, if I'm right, this suggests that it was facing correctly once, but not in the second setup.

Can this be so? I don't know, not having tried to design a scenario.

[Webwing]

Originally posted by handihoc:

Sorry, mate. I do apologise.

You do understand I was joking about the upset bit. That's why I placed 2 laughing faces!

I still don't understand why they don't turn around and face the enemy after they come under fire, though. I mean, they do eventually, if they live long enough, but I seem to remember it took them a few turns.

In this case it could be because they have HIDE orders as they first appear on the map.

Also, in Hasrabit, I had to restart the mission due to my initially pathetic performance. First time in I remember the offending mg opened fire on me. Second time it didn't, and that's when I discovered it was facing the wrong way. So, if I'm right, this suggests that it was facing correctly once, but not in the second setup.

Can this be so? I don't know, not having tried to design a scenario.

I don't know but it could be that there are more than one plan. When you start having several plans, groups and orders things can get messy. Specially once you start tweaking here and there. You do something in one plan but forget to do it in the other. Now multiply this by the number of missions in the campaign.

But again, this is not my mission so I have no way to know for sure.

-

[ May 27, 2008, 05:44 AM: Message edited by: Webwing ]

[birdstrike]

I also have seen this facing "bug", though I think it's not a bug per se, but rather the effect of the latest patch - at least that's when it started to appear for me.

In my case, the units seem trying to face the direction which is set as the enemy's "friendly direction".

Normal Dude is right, it overrides the player's setup for all units unless they are immobilized - though I have yet to check wheter it's consistent or erratic. So far I think I've seen it two or three times, but I can verify it only in one of my own scenarios as a reproducible issue.

[Webwing]

birdstrike,

If you have the scenario you made and can reproduce the problem in it every time, could you send it over to me? Email is on my profile.

I'd like to take a look and see what's going on. If it is really a bug, some sort of behavior that somehow has changed in a patch or whatever.

Thanks.

[handihoc]

Webwing, yes, I realised you were joking.

In fact, so was I. I'm not sorry at all!!

[birdstrike]

Webwing,

scenario sent. Look for terrifico@fastmail.

Have fun

[Webwing]

Originally posted by handihoc:

Webwing, yes, I realised you were joking.

In fact, so was I. I'm not sorry at all!!

I can´t remember the number of times people got upset because they did not understand that the other person was just joking.

Better double check!!!

-

[Billy Riley]

Webwing

I've sent my scenario to you also.

I've just lost the energy.

I placed every single Red unit and gave every single Red unit a facing. When that didn't work, I deleted all the Red units, saved the scenario, exited, opened up the editor, loaded the scenario, gave Red new units, placed every single one and gave every one a facing and STILL they face the wrong way.

[Webwing]

Billy,

Got your email.

I've asked MarkEzra to help me check this issue.

We've already looked into birdstrike's scenario. I'll take a look at yours but not before Friday I'm afraid. Sorry about that but I'm really short of time.

Will post here with the findings.

-

[Billy Riley]

No probs...whenever is convenient. I'm not using the editor until I find out what's going on, because for me, with this issue, it's been an area of great frustration.

Regardless of whether it's a fault in the engine or my design, as long as I know how to remedy it, I'll be happy.

Thx

btw...what were your findings with MarkEzra's scenario?

[Webwing]

I promised an answer, so here it is.

I check both scenarios that have the facing problem, birdstricke's and Billy's.

birdstricke's scenario is a bit more complex so it's more complicated to isolate things. Anyway I gave it a go and so did Mark.

Then I concentrated on Billy's scenario.

I tested every single variable.

As a last resort I deleted everything. The only thing left was the map. No troops, no setup areas in the map, no objectives, no AI at all.

Then I added a bunch of troops to one side and a bunch to the other.

Still, you start the game and they face south!!!

Last test. I made a map of the same dimensions and placed the troops the same way. Every thing works fine!

Go figure!!! :eek:

I don't know what was saved in that original scenario that's is causing this. Maybe this map was done in a previous patch that had some bug that is lingering there in the map file.

The sad thing is that to fix it as it is the only option is to start fresh with a new map.

For Billy that wouldn't be too bad since the terrain is not that complex. Also there is no complicated AI plan, which is where we tend to spend most of the time.

I have to say that both maps are very interesting. bridstrike's map is very nice. Mark really liked it too.

Billy's scenario appeals to me specially since it's about a war that has always interested me.

My advice is for birdstrike to wait a bit and see if BF finds a solution.

For Billy I'd say, just go ahead and start it over. It's worth the while and I'm sure it will work this time.

We need nice scenarios like this!

-

[Billy Riley]

Thx very much for looking at it, Webwing.

I have to say, one possibility is that I set the "friendly area" of the map wrong in the first place and, thereafter, it ignores what facing you give it.

I don't know. I don't even know if I did give them the wrong facing. I do know that I did change the facing a few times...most certainly to try and rectify the problem...but the problem could've been caused by wrong facing initially...so maybe Battlefront could just make a quick check to make sure that facing is changed after it's initial setting.

As for my scenario, thx WebWing. It is "very loosely" based on the Goose Green battle in the Falklands Conflict.

I was hoping to create it, test it, modify, test, modify, test etc, etc...there isn't a great deal I can do with the Falklands with US and Syrian troops but what I hoped to portray was what 2 Para did on that night...advnance up a very narrow strip of land with little effective arty, facing a much larger force of enemy...and close with them, advancing over open ground.

We'll see. It won't take me as long to do the map as before because I spent alot of time working out how to work the heights tool...so I really wanted to revisit it anyway.

One question before I get into it...how do I add water? I see I can add a pond...but a large water mass? I don't like the fact that my map is so "rectangluar"

Thx again for looking.

[Field Marshal Blücher]

You cannot add water. It's one of the things that a lot of people are crying out for. You can add marsh tiles, if you want, though, and it might be worth checking these threads out, and asking their creator for help.

-FMB