New Scenario: Crossroads

[Webwing]

This missions is no longer available as standalone.

It's now part of the Crossroads Campaign.

Please download the campaign from CMMODS to play this mission.

Current Version: v1.3

Duration: 90 min.

Infantry Only.

Playable only from the Blue side.

You have to control the crossroads with minimum casualties.

If you play it please leave some feedback so that I can improve it.

Two plans for Red so far.

*EDIT*

MOST OF THE POSTS BELLOW ARE FULL OF SPOILERS. MIGHT BE A GOOD IDEA TO PLAY THE MISSION FIRST BEFORE READING ON.

Thanks

[ December 09, 2007, 02:23 AM: Message edited by: Webwing ]

[JohnO]

Just dl Crossroads and will test it out tonight after work. Will post here.

[Webwing]

JohnO,

Looking forward to your feedback. Thanks!

I have at least 8 maps close to finished and several missions to go with them. Thing is I'm always experimenting and never finish anything!

This one is the closest to finished that I have.

I wanted a field with just a few houses but loads of small elevations for the troops to get behind and shoot!

I tried to add some randomness to see how it would go. For both sides. Even with only one plan for RED for now.

The biggest unbalancing factor is the second inf company that might not get there on time to help you!!

If they get there soon enough the mission is too easy. If the don't it is a good fight, I feel.

But I really don't know at this point. Testing you know where everything is so it's very hard to balance the mission without help from others.

I like infantry only. Too many Strykers, Bradleys and Abrams in most missions for my taste. Its a personal thing of course.

A few problems with this though.

1 - The problem with troops getting too tired when crawling might make your life a little bit difficult.

2 - Ammo. No Strikers means no extra ammo supply.

3 - It takes time to get from A to B on foot.

--

[handihoc]

I'll definitely dl and test it soon as I get chance - might be a few days, though. I also like the idea of inf only. The original Babado was that, and a really nice mission it was/is too (though it's larger more mechanised offspring is also totally cool). I'll let you know asap - but cheers for making it.

[Webwing]

Originally posted by handihoc:

I'll definitely dl and test it soon as I get chance - might be a few days, though. I also like the idea of inf only. The original Babado was that, and a really nice mission it was/is too (though it's larger more mechanised offspring is also totally cool). I'll let you know asap - but cheers for making it.

Ok, I count on you! Thanks.

--

[DaveDash]

well this was quite a fun mission, had a bit of a WW2 feel to it.

SPOILERS:

Well, I failed hopelessly at this mission. I think my tactics were relatively sound, I was just let down by real poor shooting on behalf of my men.

I sent TWO platoons to the west to gain the high ground, and they both were stalled COMPLETELY by the guys defending the hill and the guys in the houses below.

I send another platoon east through the forest to provide overwatch for my .. eventual ... assault and they also got pinned down.

The biggest thing preventing me from moving forward was ammo. I noticed the poor levels of ammo on my guys way too late, and perhaps I could have re-armed my guys at that Stryker.

Eventually though, all my guys ran out of ammo and had a very poor exchange rate with the Syrian forces (almost 1:1 slightly in my favour).

This is where I asked for a cease-fire, unable to gain any objectives. I had about 54 minutes left, but without more ammo against fresh enemy reinforcemetns, my efforts would have been futile.

Overall pretty cool mission. Pretty intense fights, while your ammo lasts that is. Given limited ammo, inexperianced troops (I watched my entire platoon unload at a guy in the open and take about a minute to kill him) and constant enemy reinforcements im not sure how to win this one. Also, shouldnt the recon platoon be one of the first on the scene?

Edit - oh yeah, it was cool to see the enemy move to take defensive positions. It's eerily quiet at the start, but once they're in position, all hell breaks loose.

[ December 06, 2007, 06:10 AM: Message edited by: DaveDash ]

[Webwing]

First thanks a lot for the feedback. Designing the mission you lose perspective completely sometimes and its not possible to have an interesting mission without the help of this kind of feedback.

Originally posted by DaveDash:

well this was quite a fun mission, had a bit of a WW2 feel to it.

All my missions end up having this feel. I wonder why!

SPOILERS:

Well, I failed hopelessly at this mission. I think my tactics were relatively sound, I was just let down by real poor shooting on behalf of my men.

I'll look into the poor shooting issue.

Winning or Losing

My idea was:

To win you MUST take few losses. Not sure if this is clear on the briefing but your main objective is to probe the enemy strength. IF possible, specially if the second company arrives on time, then you try and take the crossroads.

If you take few losses a draw is already assured. If you also kill a good number of Reds or take the crossroads then you win.

I sent TWO platoons to the west to gain the high ground, and they both were stalled COMPLETELY by the guys defending the hill and the guys in the houses below.

I send another platoon east through the forest to provide overwatch for my .. eventual ... assault and they also got pinned down.

The biggest thing preventing me from moving forward was ammo. I noticed the poor levels of ammo on my guys way too late, and perhaps I could have re-armed my guys at that Stryker.

Eventually though, all my guys ran out of ammo and had a very poor exchange rate with the Syrian forces (almost 1:1 slightly in my favour).

This is where I asked for a cease-fire, unable to gain any objectives. I had about 54 minutes left, but without more ammo against fresh enemy reinforcemetns, my efforts would have been futile.

I'm not sure still how to solve the ammo issue. I assume you used the ammo in the immoblilized Striker. It is there exactly so that you can get 3 Javelins and more ammo. The Javelins help you clear two houses full of enemies in front of you and the guys on the tree lines. This way you can take control of the high ground a lot easier.

I wanted to use some randomness and see if this added a sense of realism to the mission. The second company can arrive any time from 30 minutes to 90 minutes. Depending on that your mission can change dramatically. Leaving this to chance seems realistic to me, but is it fun? I assume you never got them.

IMAGE

Sure!!! The recon platoon should be the first there. Good point.

If you choose to try and advance through your right flank, a possible course too, you will face an attack on your left flank! The AI behavior is pretty cool on this one.

New version, v1_1, is already on CMMODS.

Max load of ammo for all US units.

The scouts now start the game.

Up one notch the experience of most units.

Tweaked the point system.

Some changes in the AI as well.

----

[ December 07, 2007, 06:01 AM: Message edited by: Webwing ]

[DaveDash]

Thanks for the feedback. Ill try your new version later.

It might pay however to wait for a few more people to test your original version before making too many changes. Some might find it easier than I did.

I did screw up by not getting any javelin missiles, but it wouldnt have effected the outcome too much I dont think.

[Bertram]

Tried the sceario, but gave up after about 10 minutes.

The men at the starting position got killed when trying to move from left to right behind the wall. Lost most of 2 squads there, as the men just kept moving, thinking they were in cover of the wall, while the enemy kept shooting them. To be fair, the 3th platoon was lying prone behind the 10 ft wall and returning fire without trouble.

Then the first reinforcements arrived, also behind the wall (though on a slight hill? ). They got pinned and slaughtered where they entered. Not sure if the height of the hill made them in plain sight or if the enemy was firing through the wall.

Lost 40 men then, and still almost in my setup position, not having moved at all. So I quit with about 1 hr 30 minutes to go.

I will try again when version 1.05 is out.

Bertram

Nb.: could not get ammo either, as troops trying to enter the Stryker also got fired upon through the wall.

[Webwing]

Bertram,

Thanks for the feedback!

The infamous tall wall bug can give you a bit of a headache but I didin't experience what you describe.

DaveDash mentioned it was too quiet in the beginning so I don't think he had that problem.

Enemy troops aren't supposed to start firing at you right away. You are not in range of their ambush orders. Only when some of your troops start advancing or shooting. I'll try to replicate what happened to you.

But either way it won't hurt to have Blue starting positions inside the houses. I might change that.

I'm not giving up on this one, so do come back in the future to give it another go. Or maybe after 1.05!

Lost 40 men then, and still almost in my setup position, not having moved at all. So I quit with about 1 hr 30 minutes to go.

By the way, the whole mission is 1hr30min.

--

[ December 07, 2007, 05:59 AM: Message edited by: Webwing ]

[Bertram]

I did start to move, one squad got beside the house before everyone opened up and they fell back.

I had send some troops on the roof (the SAW gunners), and they had good cover. It was those other squads behind the wall that got mowed down...

The reinforcements arrived on a slight hill behind the wall, it might be that they were visible over the wall, especially to the enemy on the hill to the left and on the roofs. Those reinforcements got pinned by AK fire, and then slaughtered by -I think- rifle grenades or mortars.

If they were in view either the hil should be lower, or they should pop up in an other place (right near corner maybe?). But I would await the update before doing anything.

Anyway, it looked interesting, except for the frustrating bugs (I was already irritated, started Hammertime, and two of my teams got stuck, with one man jumping the wall, and a Stryker kept driving circles around a house.... I just should not play this game before the next patch).

[DaveDash]

I played through the updated version and while it was much improved, all my guys ran short of ammo again.

I would have won, although suffering heavy casualties, but it crashed about turn 70 on me.

Basically all my guys ran low on ammo, and wouldnt really fire at anything anymore, so I just did a mass suicide charge into the middle.

Ammo needs to be increased, maybe have three more immobile Strykers sitting around (without javelins, just ammo). The reason I say this is two-fold:

1) The Syrian AI doesnt seem to run low on ammo. Even at the end of the game his units UNLOADED on mine despite these units firing through-out the entire battle. My guys wouldn't even shoot back. His units should have been out of ammo long ago.

2) LOS annoyances in 1.04. Guys on rooftops can shoot at you, but you can't shoot back without saturating the area with area fire. This of course chews through the ammo at a rapid rate.

I pretty much mowed through his army from the high hilltop if they were exposed, but I couldn't get close to the town without a suicide charge at the end. The "east" route definately is a death trap. The guys on top of those buildings just wreck havock to your troops THROUGH the hills, and you are incapable of shooting back.

I think next time I try I might send a Platoon to take the high hill with tons of ammo, and then send two platoons just straight up the damn middle and try and gain those trenches. Use the annoying LOS bug against the computer.

EDIT:

Ive just noticed in the scenario looking at it via the editor you get a company reinforcement after about 60-90 minutes, well, that changes things a bit =P

If my game didnt crash I probably would have gotten them at some point.

[ December 07, 2007, 10:22 AM: Message edited by: DaveDash ]

[Webwing]

Originally posted by Bertram:

I did start to move, one squad got beside the house before everyone opened up and they fell back.

I had send some troops on the roof (the SAW gunners), and they had good cover. It was those other squads behind the wall that got mowed down...

The reinforcements arrived on a slight hill behind the wall, it might be that they were visible over the wall, especially to the enemy on the hill to the left and on the roofs. Those reinforcements got pinned by AK fire, and then slaughtered by -I think- rifle grenades or mortars.

If they were in view either the hil should be lower, or they should pop up in an other place (right near corner maybe?). But I would await the update before doing anything.

Anyway, it looked interesting, except for the frustrating bugs (I was already irritated, started Hammertime, and two of my teams got stuck, with one man jumping the wall, and a Stryker kept driving circles around a house.... I just should not play this game before the next patch).

They now start inside the buildings. It really makes no difference except that we avoid cases like this one you mentioned. It makes more sense anyway.

I repositioned some of the reinforcements.

[Webwing]

Originally posted by DaveDash:

I would have won, although suffering heavy casualties, but it crashed about turn 70 on me.

I have to test it again in WEGO. Most of the time I test it RT.

Basically all my guys ran low on ammo, and wouldnt really fire at anything anymore, so I just did a mass suicide charge into the middle.

Ammo needs to be increased, maybe have three more immobile Strykers sitting around (without javelins, just ammo). The reason I say this is two-fold:

1) The Syrian AI doesnt seem to run low on ammo. Even at the end of the game his units UNLOADED on mine despite these units firing through-out the entire battle. My guys wouldn't even shoot back. His units should have been out of ammo long ago.

2) LOS annoyances in 1.04. Guys on rooftops can shoot at you, but you can't shoot back without saturating the area with area fire. This of course chews through the ammo at a rapid rate.

I pretty much mowed through his army from the high hilltop if they were exposed, but I couldn't get close to the town without a suicide charge at the end. The "east" route definately is a death trap. The guys on top of those buildings just wreck havock to your troops THROUGH the hills, and you are incapable of shooting back.

I think next time I try I might send a Platoon to take the high hill with tons of ammo, and then send two platoons just straight up the damn middle and try and gain those trenches. Use the annoying LOS bug against the computer.

Well, it is a problem conserving ammo. But it is manageable. If you know that you could have help from an extra company, you wouldn't need to hurry so much.

A few tips that might help:

You can take 2 squads, cross the road to the left and up behind the hill without firing a single shot. Take your troops through the gap on the wall that is close to the border of the map before crossing the highway.

Take the house halfway from you and the crossroads, going through the wheat field and little road. Carefully!

Else you will just be firing for too long from the roofs of your starting position.

I'd like to here what others have to say before watering down this one too much...

EDIT:

Ive just noticed in the scenario looking at it via the editor you get a company reinforcement after about 60-90 minutes, well, that changes things a bit =P

If my game didnt crash I probably would have gotten them at some point.

You didn't read the briefing. That is mentioned there. You also didn't read my post here. I mentioned it as well. It seems you have the same philosophy as me "If everything else fails, read the manual."

Now, seriously.

They are set to 60min with an arrival span of 30 min. Meaning it could be anytime between 30 to 90 min.

Do you think having an extra company that may not arrive is an interesting prospect or it actually detracts from the fun?

Should the Co have a fixed time of arrival?

Anyway, thats for all the feedback.

--

[ December 07, 2007, 10:45 AM: Message edited by: Webwing ]

[DaveDash]

I think right now, how you've done it in V1.1, it's acheiveable but difficult if the 2nd Company doesn't arrive in time. And it's relatively easy if the 2nd company does arrive in time.

I think it adds to the scenario more than takes away by having the random arrival time. You have to plan accordingly.

This mission also is damn good for practicing infantry tactics and getting them right. I'm used to just blowing stuff up with IFVs and using infantry in secondary sweep/clear RPGs role.

[handihoc]

I do like this a lot so far (about 30 mins in). V1.1 (but what's that about starting in buildings? Mine don't).

Lovely map, very testing for the player, with limited forces and a punishing enemy. I'm gonna hve to start again as I've taken too many casualties - but that's more my play than the scenario.

Enemy's very aggressive and effective, which I like, and it's certainly going to be a challenge. Locking horns again now!

[Webwing]

Originally posted by DaveDash:

This mission also is damn good for practicing infantry tactics and getting them right. I'm used to just blowing stuff up with IFVs and using infantry in secondary sweep/clear RPGs role.

That was the idea. That's why I have it the description at CMMODS that "if you like tanks and IFVs, etc., this is not for you".

It's a whole different ball game. It's a lot slower, I planned it for 90 minutes. It's not as spectacular. But I have a soft spot for this kind of battle. The first game I MODed was CC2 and it was exactly to have only infantry teams!

By the way I have uploaded v1.2

There is a second plan for red now, plus a few more tweaks.

Now I'll give it a rest and concentrate on a few other missions I have on hold. I'll come back to Crossroads after 1.05.

Again, thanks for your help DaveDash.

--

[Webwing]

Originally posted by handihoc:

I do like this a lot so far (about 30 mins in). V1.1 (but what's that about starting in buildings? Mine don't).

Lovely map, very testing for the player, with limited forces and a punishing enemy. I'm gonna hve to start again as I've taken too many casualties - but that's more my play than the scenario.

Enemy's very aggressive and effective, which I like, and it's certainly going to be a challenge. Locking horns again now!

Thanks a lot handihoc.

I just uploaded the new v1.2

You probably have an older version? Or was while I was uploading the new 1.1!?

Anyway check the file. Should be Crossroads_v1_2.btt now.

Please post your experience with this version here when you are done.

Good luck, and have fun.

--

[DaveDash]

I went back to my savegame before it crashed and finished the mission.

Very tough. I never got my reinforcements and a lot of my units were badly chopped up. My troops were out of ammo, squads decimated, and my entire force was basically combat ineffective by the end, thus I called for a cease-fire.

This is what the battle-map looked like at the end:

It's definately do-able without the 2nd company, but damn is it hard.

[ December 07, 2007, 03:33 PM: Message edited by: DaveDash ]

[Webwing]

Originally posted by DaveDash:

I went back to my savegame before it crashed and finished the mission.

Very tough. I never got my reinforcements and a lot of my units were badly chopped up. My troops were out of ammo, squads decimated, and my entire force was basically combat ineffective by the end, thus I called for a cease-fire.

This is what the battle-map looked like at the end:

It's definately do-able without the 2nd company, but damn is it hard.

Well done Dash!!!!

To do it in 1hr 10 min is really fantastic.

Although you didn't really control the crossroads you denied control of it to the Syrians. So no one got points for that.

You didn't kill more than 70% of the enemy. But neither did he manage to kill more than 30% of your troops. And you get 400 just to keep your boys alive!

Looking again I caught two mistakes. One on the point system and another on the area that you must control.

Now I wonder if the total number of soldier is based on the total in the mission or the ones that have already arrived. I think is the total.

You didn't have 269 men?! You probably had what... 150 men? I'll check that.

The enemy had all his men there - 204.

In 1.2 you get the other company, for sure, at 45 min.

But I'll cut that down to 2 more platoons. Else it's going to be too easy with close to 65 men more than the enemy and the more than a hundred that arrive later are fresh and full o ammo.

So, there we go, v1.3!

--

[ December 07, 2007, 06:06 PM: Message edited by: Webwing ]

[DaveDash]

Yeah towards the end I did a 'gamey' suicide charge to get close to the objectives, which is where the vast majority of my casualties came from.

I know how to make the scenario significantly easier this time. There are three buildings that need to be Javelined in order to stand a chance, unfortunately my guys wasted two javelins in WEGO against enemy troops. Your javelins are your artilley, and I think its key to save them until the end to take out the remaining enemy fortified positions.

Ill try again 1.3. I enjoy this mission. It's challanging and you learn a lot. BTW - playing through again even through I know where the enemy is, I pretend not too. This way it gives a better indication of mission difficulty for you.

[ December 07, 2007, 11:56 PM: Message edited by: DaveDash ]

[Webwing]

Originally posted by DaveDash:

Yeah towards the end I did a 'gamey' suicide charge to get close to the objectives, which is where the vast majority of my casualties came from.

I know how to make the scenario significantly easier this time. There are three buildings that need to be Javelined in order to stand a chance, unfortunately my guys wasted two javelins in WEGO against enemy troops. Your javelins are your artilley, and I think its key to save them until the end to take out the remaining enemy fortified positions.

Ill try again 1.3. I enjoy this mission. It's challanging and you learn a lot. BTW - playing through again even through I know where the enemy is, I pretend not too. This way it gives a better indication of mission difficulty for you.

DaveDash,

Your input is being a great help to me. In 1.3 there are 2 plans so you might (50/50 chances) fall into plan 2 where the enemy behaves differently. Although some positions have to be the same to be able to resist the US decently.

Thanks again.

--

[ThePhantom]

Great scenario, Webwing. I'm just starting now and it is fun. Infantry, nothing better. I'll give you my report when I'm done. I was looking at the hill "Objective 2." Should name it the "Amphitheatre." Looks like something on Iwo Jima.

[Webwing]

Originally posted by ThePhantom:

Great scenario, Webwing. I'm just starting now and it is fun. Infantry, nothing better. I'll give you my report when I'm done. I was looking at the hill "Objective 2." Should name it the "Amphitheatre." Looks like something on Iwo Jima.

Thanks a lot ThePhantom!

Your Babado scenario is a masterpiece. I tried to learn from it as much as I could. It's a shame it's backed and I can't open it in the editor to scrutinize it!

It would be fantastic to read your report on the Crossroads.

--

[the Fighting Seabee]

Thanks for the new mission. I got it and will check it out tonight.

So far it is rated 4.0, not bad... since no one has bothered to rate mine (death on the sand). LOL.

I look forward to the other 8 map you have in the oven!