Map design tips and techniques.

[SgtMuhammed]

I haven't seen a thread dedicated to designing maps just yet so since I have a couple questions I though I would start one.

I have been designing a map based on one of my old 1:50,000 maps of Hohenfels. It looks good but my hills are a little more stepped than I would like. I have been putting in all the contour lines from the map but was thinking that maybe I should try using fewer set lines and instead letting the smoothing software build the terrain. How have you guys had the most success?

Also, I have noticed that there appear to be random changes in elevation in areas that I haven't worked on yet. Will these go away once I have the map completed?

[Webwing]

sgtgoody,

I don't think there are random changes. From what I've seen what happens is if you change the elevation in one point it adapts the elevation around it. Depending how you 'lock' your elevation the points that are 'free' will try to adjust to keep the general look smoth. You have to experiment a bit since depending which and how you lock some points you might create wrinkles or other undesired effects.

You are right in that if you put less points between diferent hights it will look smother and probably better. But it depends a lot. It Takes some trying to find out which points to lock and which to be left untouched.

Not sure if this helps you. Just my experience so far.

I like this elevation system a lot. Once you get used to it, it works wonders.

[Cpl Steiner]

sgtgoody,

I tend to draw the base contour of a hill in elevation 20 and then the next contour up at elevation 25, leaving a gap of several tiles between contours. I repeat for elevation 30, 35 etc, depending on the circumference of the hill. If I want a cliff, I overlap two contours, such that there is at least a 5 elevation difference in the space of one tile.

I have noticed the problem you report about random elevation changes. Sometimes adding additional contours can result in tiles outside of one of my "base" contours becoming elevation 21 instead of 20. I can usually fix this by clicking elevation 20 down again on the base-of-hill tiles nearest to the offending tile. I think the problem is that if you have elevation tiles touching at a corner rather than a side, there is some "leakage" of the auto-adjusted tiles. However, I prefer to have diagonal contours here and there as it looks neater and seems to give smoother hill outlines.

When placing buildings on hillsides, I tend to paint a square of same-elevation tiles where the building will go, as otherwise you get little lips next to doors etc. that don't look too good. It also ensures the roofs of multi-tile buildings are the same level.

At the top of a long and narrow hill I sometimes just draw a line of elevation tiles, to form a crest-line, rather than a contour. You can taper the crest-line elevation tiles to get a smoother effect - by which I mean have the ends a few elevations lower than the middle in a gradient to form a kind of arch.

Another thing to bear in mind is that a 2-story building roof is 5 elevations higher than its bottom floor. Likewise, a 4-story building roof is 10 elevations higher than its bottom floor. This is handy to know when trying to provide covered areas for troops to advance over.

In general the important thing is to make sure there are not sharp elevation differences between tiles - unless of course you are trying to create a very steep incline.

[ November 26, 2007, 03:04 AM: Message edited by: Cpl Steiner ]

[Paper Tiger]

Sgt Goody: Good topic. I have had a lot of fun creating maps with the scenario editor and the elevation system is a beauty.

The advice you've received so far is excellent. I'm a little sloppier when I design maps and the real problems arise when you change things or expand the map boundaries (especially the latter )

I start out like the other guys and then think, 'Wouldn't it be cool if there was another hill between hill A and hill B' Then I look at the 3D preview and see wht my changes have done and then return to the editor and correct anything shocking. This randomness has led to some stunning features appearing on my maps, entirely unintentional. Things like gullies, depressions and I see them and think 'woo hoo, I'm keeping that!'

For me the absolutely most important thing to do is to get rid of the pyramids at the peak of hills. This is easy enough to do but on a large map, it can take a very long time to whack all these mole hills. Oops, don't have time to write more, I have to go shopping with the wife... maybe later...

[MarkEzra]

My technique:

1. Choose the map size

2. Using the extreme map view Draw the general map contour outlines.

3. Color the higher levels Red (or whatever) for easy viewing check the map in 3D view and REALLY look it over

4. Save this map

5. Now start fine tuning the map contours to get the EXACT size and shape you desire. As you work re-name and save your file....ESPECIALLY when you are trying something different that may effect the map in a major way.

[SgtMuhammed]

Thanks guys. Next week I will be able to play around with it again since the semester will be over. It actually looks pretty good now but it could be better.

[Webwing]

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One of the trickiest things for me so far is to put roads that go across hills or even small elevation. I've yet to find a more effective and less time consuming way to do that.

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[SgtMuhammed]

AAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHH! I just finished putting in all the woodlines in my Hohenfels map. All 9 square kilometers of it. So let's go see what it looks like. 3D preview, 67% data loaded, CTD! And no I didn't save first. Lesson learned.

[Webwing]

Originally posted by SgtMuhammed:

AAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHH! I just finished putting in all the woodlines in my Hohenfels map. All 9 square kilometers of it. So let's go see what it looks like. 3D preview, 67% data loaded, CTD! And no I didn't save first. Lesson learned.

9 square kilometers!!!!!!?????

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[Webwing]

Since this is tips and techniques, I contribute 2. Nothing cutting edge. But stuff that it's not on the manual.

First: Deployment of AI forces

The forces that start the game they don't need to be placed manualy on the map. You can just specify an area in the AI section and the TacAI will place them for you. BUT the reinforcements need to be placed by hand else they will show in the corner of the map.

Second: Different size/types of forces for different plans for the AI player.

I did this for my last mission. 3 Plans for the AI . Some units I use in one plan but not in the other. Now there is no official way to do this that I know (Do you?). So I set up an area behind a high hill, behind the enemy line. This area is not an objective for the blue and they wont have time to get there anyway. I place the troops that will be used for only one plan there with HIDE orders. So they "sleep" there. They only wake up for their own plan.

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Have you goto some tips?

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[SgtMuhammed]

Ok, I think the problems I had were related to the size of the map. I started over with a 2x2 map and it is going well. No CTDs and slow but normal load times.

I am also experimenting with using the gravel ground tile for gravel roads. For my Hohenfels map it works because all the hardball roads in the training area were packed gravel. Once I get the map done I will post it as a QB map as well as a scenario. I am thinking of making a Campaign based on a typical Hohenfels rotation. Should be interesting to try an put an entire MRR on the map. Not really sure it will actually work.

[SgtMuhammed]

Ok. The 2x2 map with European terrain seems to be a no-go. It looks great but with a U.S. Company Team + and a Syrian Mech Bn it is unplayable. I think the trees are killing me.

[Paper Tiger]

SgtMuhammed: try playing it with a much smaller Syrian force, and for that matter, the US too. The number of units in the game slows everything down. You're going to need a spectacular CPU to get that to run:)

[SlapHappy]

Sgt.

I think it's a good thing you are stretching the limits here. It is important for the designers to know what the limits of the game engine are regarding troops, map elements, etc.

[SgtMuhammed]

In 1.05 the map I mentioned is now playable although I have not played all the way through so I don't know what happens when all the troops show up. I'll post more as I find out. Looks like I'll be able to do my CMTC campaign after all.