so... why is it noone has done this yet?

[Oddball_E8]

first thing i expected to see when i went on the forums again was a ton of black hawk down scenarios...

but now that i noticed that there isnt a single one, i kinda wish there was :eek:

[Cpl Steiner]

Oddball_E8,

A Black Hawk Down scenario is one of the first things I tried with the editor. I found it just couldn't be done.

Specifically, I wanted to simulate a Humvee convoy running the gauntlet of enemy AK and RPG fire as it sped through a hostile city. To my dismay, the Humvees were always destroyed by frighteningly accurate RPGs within seconds of starting out, even against Conscript-level Uncon Combatants (supposedly just civilians who've grabbed a weapon, as opposed the Uncon Fighters who are supposed to have had some training).

To my mind, Uncon Combatants are way too good in CM:SF at the moment. I would have them barely able to hit a barn door at 50 paces.

[Oddball_E8]

i must agree with you there steiner... uncom combatants should be way worse

and its kinda crap that humvees with M2's always button up at the slightest fire... wich in my view (dont know about the armys view) is completely the wrong thing to do... if an enemy shoots at you when you are in a (very) lightly armored vehicle and you have a heavy machinegun on top, YOU FIRE BACK!

that way you will stop them from firing at you as opposed to, say, sitting in the passenger seat and looking at them would...

[SlapHappy]

I find it kind of shocking too, the level of parity in some of these troop types. I guess Battlefront couldn't avoid the skewing of force type capabilities to make the game milieu more viable.

The only thing I can't figure out is why they chose this setting if they couldn't make it work without getting dodgy with the reality level.

[SgtMuhammed]

The question isn't troop type so much as over accurate fire. 99.9999999% of all small arms fire is area fire, and poorly aimed area fire at that. I believe the current figure from Iraq is well over 200,000 rounds fired for every casualty. A bullet doesn't care if it came from the weapon of an Uncon who barely knows which end to point at the Americans or a SF veteran who can put a round through your ear at a mile. If it hits it will do damage, and there's the issue. In the game, in any game actually, rounds hit entirely too often.

Compare casualty figures from any actual battle to those you get from any wargame and you will find them entirely too high. In real combat moral will break long before a unit is physically incapable of combat. This, however, makes for boring game play. People would be howling if their units broke after having one guy wounded much less killed, but that is what really happens. Vehicles also take a lot more to kill, especially from smallarms fire, than people believe. Usually you stop a vehicle because you incapacitate the driver. So again you end up with a game with people complaining about how "unrealistic" it is.

So basically what I am saying is that game play issues mean that the results have to be closer to Hollywood than reality.

[General_solomon]

There are a few ways to bring down the lethality.

In the editor I make all units on both sides conscript. fantical - so they dont give up too easily. also, poor weapons.

I ran few test to see what would happen to troops running accross open ground from one to house to another. the houses were fifty meters apart. I place an enemy squad fifty meter in between the two houses.

I ran three squad across with regalar option in elite game play. 3 out of 27 soldiers survived.

did it again with the above options in basic training game play option and lost one to two soldier in each squad.

[LGMB]

Here's the beta for Mogadishu inspired scenerio the one I'm making set in post-war Syria May 2009.

Latakia

[General_solomon]

lgmb: nice map. I really the look of the buildings.

I played a few minutes to gauge the game play. It works for me. The only thing i would change would be the time limit.

[LGMB]

Remember, map is strictly beta.

Suggestions welcome (:

I'm thinking about putting 2nd platoon in reserve.

Also, play as red & blue, let me know. (:

[Cpl Steiner]

LGMB,

Your scenario looks very nice indeed. What did you use for the satellite images in the briefing? Was it Google Earth?

[LGMB]

Sure was (:

[SlapHappy]

I found this cool little spot of Syrian earth with what looked to be some kind of compound with surrounding terrain. I captured the screen out and cropped the map out as a JPG.

It's a shame there isn't some easy way to import a graphic map save like this into the editor.

Coding such a piece of recognition software like that would be painful, if not nearly impossible, though.

[Thomm]

Originally posted by SlapHappy:

It's a shame there isn't some easy way to import a graphic map save like this into the editor.

Actually, this appears so trivial to me that I am sure it will be added sooner or later.

BUT: what about saving the background bitmap within the scenario file? If it is a large bitmap, it will increase the file size tremendously. It also calls for a change in the scenario data structure, which may be not possible in terms of backward compatibility.

Best regards,

Thomm

[Oddball_E8]

hmm... i downloaded your scenario LGMB, and i like it, but i fixed up a few things on the map (mainly the roads) and ive designed another scenario around it (cut-off US special forces have to hold out until evac arrives whilst hordes of insurgents attack them)

just did it to play hotseat with my pal, but if you want i could send you your mission with the spruced up map (unless youre doing that yourself since its just a beta)

[LGMB]

Why not upload what you've got mang, I'll take a look at it! (:

[Oddball_E8]

mang?

u mean me?

well its been delayed for a bit since i cant get air support to react any faster than 5½ minutes (even with JTAC) wich makes it practically useless on this map...