mini-AAR on MOUT

[Chelco]

Originally posted by Cpl Steiner:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JohnO:

I'm enjoying the AAR but what did you use to make the graphics in this screenshot?

JohnO,

I think it is "Adobe PhotoShop" but you might want to check out the following as I have found this to be almost as powerful and it's free:

Paint.NET </font>

[JohnO]

Originally posted by Cpl Steiner:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JohnO:

I'm enjoying the AAR but what did you use to make the graphics in this screenshot?

JohnO,

I think it is "Adobe PhotoShop" but you might want to check out the following as I have found this to be almost as powerful and it's free:

Paint.NET </font>

[Chelco]

For a couple of minutes, the future looks bright.

3rd and 2nd Sqds have a firm foothold on both sides of the road.

3rd Sqd then assaults bldg. 33 (yellow arrow) …

[Chelco]

… and receives sniper fire from bldg. 63 (see previous screenie for bldgs numbering)

Sniper on the rooftop of bldg 63. Men from 3rd Sqd can be seen in the background, trying to get into a building.

3rd squad takes one additional casualty to the sniper. A few minutes later, the Bradley IFV providing over-watch smacks him out.

[Chelco]

When 3rd Sqd secures bldg. 33, all hell breaks loose. Heavy fire from bldg 51 severely pins down the grunts. The Bradley IFV is ordered forward (yellow arrow) to provide fire support.

[Chelco]

For a few seconds, the approaching rumbling of the tracks gives a breather to the men of 3rd Sqd. The sense of safety is shattered quickly: an RPG takes out the Bradley IFV!

The bloody irregulars wait until the last second to pop out, this is murderous …

Fearing that 3rd Sqd. will be RPGed to pieces, I order them to pull back. Damn! Is almost like I can hear the bastards in bldg 51 hollering in celebration.

Hell in the alley. Left, knocked out Bradley. Center, crewman dying in the crossfire. Right, 3rd Sqd pulls out of the building.

An RPG is the partying gift for 3rd Sqd. from the irregulars in bldg 51. An additional casualty for 3rd Sqd.

[ August 19, 2007, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: Chelco ]

[Chelco]

The loss of the IFV severely hampers mobility along the road. I doubt bringing an additional Bradley up the road is a good idea anyway.

The Plt needs to assault bldg 51 with dismounted infantry and good fire support from an IFV. The support by fire mission with the Bradley needs to be executed from a safe distance, the RPG threat is too high. So, the only possibility I can think of is to attack the right flank of the enemy position (i.e. via the small clearance south of the open sewers).

I task 1st Sqd with that mission.

[Chelco]

Once the Sqd. reaches bldg 51, it finds all the irregulars dead. The fire support from the Bradley must have been devastating.

These little pleasant surprises are always the preamble for more bloodshed. The enemy opens fire from bldgs. 61 and 62.

RPG spotted! Bring up the Bradley! Damnit, they never give up!

This time luck is on our side. The IFV takes out the RPG team and the 1st Sqd assembles in bldg 51 quickly enough to give the enemy a curtain of lead.

[ August 19, 2007, 06:38 PM: Message edited by: Chelco ]

[Chelco]

And the scenario ends just two minutes short of the time limit.

I will not show you the whole victory screen because I have to tweak the victory conditions to something that makes sense. So here is the body count.

[KNac]

Good job, very well presented and very intertaining small units action. Did you play in RT or WeGo?

[JasonC]

I notice that the Brads were used in a very exposed manner, to just outshoot their opponents. It basically worked, but did cost you one Brad, and it could easily have lost you the first one and stalled the whole attack.

Two different tricks. One, I'd have moved the Brads (together) around the left side of the starting building area and into the main highway, not the road the enemy is deployed along. Then creep right, firing at first the corner buildings, and slowly unmask on additional buildings up the right side of the street, clobbering each in turn by fire. One Brad could then move up the alley between the left side of street, front buildings, and the rest of the buildings on that side - again avoiding the main road the enemy is deployed along. Simultaneously, all the US infantry would move up that left side of the road.

The US infantry could readily take out the ATGM team on the right side of the road from the first buildings occupied, on its left side. This is proper combined arms asymmetry - the infantry takes out the main threat to the Brads and vice versa.

Now, second trick, to deal with RPGs once the ATGM have been silenced. First crawl to just out of LOS of the infantry position you want the Bradley to engage, including RPG danger etc. Second, *pop smoke*, cutting LOS from the enemy to the Brad. Third, hunt into LOS. The Brad has full high tech IR sensors and should be able to see through the smoke. So might enemy ATGMs, but mere RPG teams will not have the sensors for it.

This is a real world tactic. How well it works in CM, I haven't tried it to say. YMMV.

[Chelco]

@KNac: thank you. I played it in RT, with off course lots of pausing.

@JasonC: Thanks for the feedback.

I agree that if the first phase would have failed, the whole thing would have come to a standstill.

But there is something I don't understand from your idea: you propose to engage bldgs 46 and 31 from the west with IFVs? For vehicles, there is no way out from the Plt assembly area but the kill zone of the ATGMs. I made the map very small a bit on purpose to challenge myself with that constraint.

I love your idea of, as in close quarters combat inside buildings, "slicing the pie". Looking forward to try that. That's perfect.

You rightly mention combined arms asymetry, but so far as you may have realized I find it very difficult to do anything with my dismounts if there is not a Brad providing fire support.

Cheers,

[JasonC]

I understand, but the constraint is simply silly. Of course if the ambush blocked the through highway and that is the whole point of clearing it, the Brads have access to the main highway, from at least one direction. "You have to go right through this boresighted opening" is tactical nonsense, it doesn't happen, there is always a way around if you know where the kill zone is.

The whole point of MOUT is to exploit the same LOS limits that the enemy is relying on for cover, to approach him in safety and to pick your shots, the match ups you want to see, and to string those together in a sequence that gets you more than your money's worth. Tactics one against ten.

Armor works in urban terrain not by standing out in the middle of the street and hoping the RPGs miss, but by keyholing on specific threats to clobber them, and then using their maneuverability (much higher than dismounts because much less vulnerable to most enemies) to reposition and isolate on the next enemy. All without stand out on the open vulnerability.

As for what the dismounts do in the approach I describe, after you clobber the front corner buildings and the first few up the right side of the road, the infantry would cross the main highway left of the ambush cross-street, at first into the left far corner building (already worked over by the Brads). From there they get spots farther up the street, Brads crawl farther right to unmask on those.

I also said to send one Brad up the alley left of that left corner building - the reason is, somebody needs to be able to blow up enemy infantry on the left side of the road, ahead of the US infantry. The procedure is, get into a house, put a squad at the right and the far windows.

2 Brads kill anything in the next houses down on the right side of the street, which the right-window squad can also see (and probably draws fire from).

The far window squad can draw fire from the next building ahead on the left side of the street, but shouldn't draw any from deeper in on that side, because the next house masks them. So you can isolate one on one on the next house. Then the Brad up the alley helps KO anybody in there. Half squad across, then another, reform at far window, another squad across and up to front windows. Repeat. Third squad trails a building and just takes over if the point one takes too many casualties.

The infantry are acting as eyes and exposing enemy if they try to fire at them. If the enemy does not fire, a couple men at a time threaten to step on top of them, and that makes them open fire. If only those at the very front do open fire, they fight alone against the whole US force and lose. If more from deeper in the position (e.g. right side of the street) try to help out, they will be seen by the front window infantry, and 1-2 of the Brads crawl just to LOS and blow each of them up.

When the Brads are using building cover to restrict LOS most of the way, the defender feels like he can't even get at them. They keep spitting out devasting firepower but won't advance into LOS of the rest of the defense. The defender can't send an RPG team closer, because the US infantry is in the buildings that would have to be used to make such an attempt.

So the Brads flat-out "eat" the whole defense, one bite at a time...

[Chelco]

JasonC,

I appreciate your feedback. Keep it coming.

As for the scenario having "tactical nonsense", point well taken. Will do better next time!

What you say makes perfect sense. Still I am a bit reluctant to embrace your tactics of fire teams acting as spotters. I tell you, in this scenario as soon as a fire team makes contact, they are in deep caca. They won't survive that initial contact even if they are in a building. At least that's my poor experience.

I have to think in the rest of your points.

Thanks,

Good night.

[Chelco]

Well, my kido refuses to fall asleep ...

BTW Jason, I don't want you to think that I stubbornly defend what I did. My AAR was not intended as a display of tactical flair but to stimulate a discussion like this one.

When I lost my Brad, I just bumped into an RPG trap. 3rd Sqd was literally across the street and they couldn't spot them. I don't know if it's realistic or not, but the bloody bastards poped out just in time for the armor kill.

I was going to post the following nugget at the beginning of this scenario, but after some thought I decided it would be a bit too pretentious. Nonetheless, I must confess that parts of the inspiration to assemble this scenario comes from this document.

Original: After action review comments from combat operations conducted by TM C/3-15 Infantry, Task Force 1-64 Armor "Desert Rogues" during "Operation Iraqi Freedom.

(emphasis is mine)

The current doctrinal manuals on Urban Operations do not address how best to utilize armored forces in an urban environment. The enemy faced by this unit hid his tanks and vehicles under camouflaged covers, beneath bridge overpasses, inside of buildings on narrow streets, and under low trees. These enemy systems were not seen until they were only meters away. No degree of IPB (Intelligence Preparation of the Batlefield) could compensate, alert, or prepare any US force for the massive numbers of RPGs (Rocket Propelled Grenades) stored in houses, shacks, lockers, and cars. The only way to counter RPGs fired from covered and concealed positions was to absorb the hit, identify the source of the fire, and respond with massive overwhelming firepower.

Tanks and Bradleys repeatedly sustained hits from RPG's and ground directed anti aircraft fire that dismounted infantrymen, HMMWVs and other light skinned vehicles could not sustain. Bradleys successfully protected the infantrymen inside while at the same time delivering a massive volume of fire against dismounted enemy, trucks, tanks, and armored vehicles. The firepower and shock generated by tanks and Bradleys could never have been matched by dismounted infantry. Without the use of these systems initially, the enemy would have caused many more casualties.

The current doctrine recommends clearing the built up area with dismounted troops prior to any armored vehicles entering. This Task Force proved that this is not a requirement and is not necessarily the best initial course of action. By moving armored vehicles along a pre determined route and destroying any enemy forces whether dug in, in buildings, or on roof tops with massive overwhelming fires from M1A1 tanks and M2A2 fighting vehicles, an entire line of communication can be opened up allowing access not only into the built up area but through it also. Once the line of communication is open, clearing operations with dismounted forces are much easier. A key to this is the overwhelming psychological effect the firepower of these weapon systems have on the enemy once the initial raid is conducted, almost all remaining enemy forces will withdraw from the initial shock. This initial shock of overwhelming firepower facilitates the attacks of dismounted infantrymen into the built up area.

Recommendation: The BCT submit to the United States Army Infantry School and the United States Armor School an update to the current urban operations doctrine. Additionally, send only vehicles that can sustain RPG hits into urban combat zones.

[Yair Iny]

Hi Chelco,

I would be happy if you could post or email me the scenario file, I would definitely like to try my hand at it.

My email is yair <dot> iny <at> gmail <dot> com

Thanks

[Chelco]

Originally posted by Yair Iny:

Hi Chelco,

I would be happy if you could post or email me the scenario file, I would definitely like to try my hand at it.

Hi Yair Iny.

Yes, off course. Will do when I get home.

Do you mind the non-existent victory conditions, setup zones, the lack of briefing, lack of objectives and the fact that you can only play as blue?

[Bil Hardenberger]

Good job Julio, a very good presentation.

I think you did a good job with your tactics, however I would have used my Bradleys in a more standoff manner, to keep them at longer range for the ever present RPG threat. I also would have used area fire on any immediate buildings with LOF to the buildings my infantry were clearing... rather than the covered arc technique you used. Better IMO to keep any potential heads down than to be surprised and then have to "react" to any fire that could cost you unnecessary casualties.

I would also expect more smoke usage, from both infantry and your vehicles to block LOS and to cover movement. I only rememeber seeing you use smoke at the ABF position.

Look forward to your next AAR.

Bil

[Chelco]

Ey Bil! Nice to see you around here.

Thanks for the feedback.

RE: area fire instead of arcs, agree. One of the things I have to change too is to use fire teams instead of squads. A few posts above I was complaining about the high amount of potential targets and the poor amount of units to suppress each of them. Using fire teams instead of whole squads seems to be the key.

RE: smoke, agree. Regretably I spent too much smoke canisters from the Bradleys in phase one. I failed to use the smoke assets from the infantry though.

Don't educate me too much Bil, all may come against you when we PBEM.

[Roter Stern]

A truly amazing presentation and an excellent write-up, good job!

Makes me wish we could do full-screen graphics for mission briefings

[Bradley Dick]

I gotta agree with Chelco's opinion that the armor goes in first. At least that's how we always did it. We would roll into the cities with the armor, set up overwatch, dismount troops, and react to threats. I know it goes against traditional doctrines to some degree, but it works. Especially in low intensity counter insurgency operations. You just don't drop the ramp unless you have to.

Infantry tend to be pest removers nowadays. They go and dig people out of the holes they're hiding in.

[Chelco]

Thanks The Louch!

@Bradley Dick:

Wow! First hand experience! I appreciate your feedback.

What do you think about the in-game survivability of the Bradley against RPG fire? Is it correct to expect the crew surviving such a short distance shot as it happened in the AAR?

[Bradley Dick]

We actually had alot of misses with RPG's, thankfully. But most of the RPG's in Iraq were older models. The hits didn't penetrate at all, for the most part. Now, there were definitely rare occasions where the weapons penetrated, even M1's, but like I said... it was rare.

Big force on force engagements with organized armies are a whole different story though. And not really my area of expertise.

[Hawkmek]

Those are some amazing pics. Kwality is outstanding. What rig are your running?

At what settings, AA, etc?

The shadows look a little jaggy.

Do they look that good "stock" from CMSF or did you use Photoshop to enhance them?

Like THEY did here

[RAYMAN]

Looks awesome, so wheres the download link .