Stryker Infantry Deployment/Assaults

[Calvin]

Friends and Colleagues:

Having a tough time with the following:

After several minutes of suppressing fire (with multiple targets knocked out) I deploy my Stryker APC's to move close to buildings or other mission targets. Stryker pops smoke, engages any remaining nearby targets. I deploy the infantry with the "assault" command (should I use "dismount" first?).

And...

Unless I've flat out eliminated every possible source of enemy fire, my deployed squads routinely get slaughtered/routed a few seconds after leaving the APC. Having reduced/suppressed local infantry, the Strykers themselves remain intact and are able to deploy infantry immediately next to the target building/deploy smoke.

And my guys still get cut to ribbons before getting anywhere near to entering the building. Last thing to emphasize: these squads are generally assaulting UNOCCUPIED buildings.

Any basic combined arms suggestions here?

Otherwise I'm left leaving the infantry safely in their APC's while trading fire with enemy targets. However much I reduce these positions, deployed infantry still gets eaten for lunch.

All input appreciated!

C.

[Bradley Dick]

Did you have anyone on overwatch during your deployment ?

[Miska]

I usually launch smoke first then i reverse my stryker as close as possible to the door and then i use fast command instead of assault command.

[PrezCartman]

Keep in mind with assault half your squad is going to remain in the open providing cover fire. If the enemy is that suppressed it's better to use fast or quick like Miska said and get all you troops in cover inside the building as fast as possible.

Also, do try to get your guys as close as possible and if you can position you Stryker where the infantry are as far out of the enemy line of fire as is possible.

[Chelco]

Originally posted by Bradley Dick:

Did you have anyone on overwatch during your deployment ?

I agree with that.

Also, don't forget about target arcs for the units providing overwatch and for those conducting the assault.

[Hardcharger]

Wash with 40mm. Rinse. Repeat.

You might want to "open up" prior to getting out around a bunch of buildings. This way your grunts can get a good look around at the buildings and maybe spot somebody hiding or the enemy may decide to open fire. Either way, it's better to risk a couple guys getting hit than having your whole squad cut down in the open.

Seriously, dismounting troops is probably one of the riskiest ventures in this game. While I've read some people say that you should dismount your infantry early and often, I disagree.

The Stryker and the infantry squad were meant to fight together, not separate. The only time I dismount my troops is when I have to capture an objective or when I'm going to use them to assault from a distance with some good bases of fire from my Strykers and MG teams.

[KNac]

It's really difficult to do it right now. Very easy to take a t least one casualty from a remote bullet even if when you do it right.

As Hardcharger I avoid it to all costs. I even prefer to advance dismounted carefully.

But well, I think the ifnantry model is a bit broken.

[Calvin]

Yep, I am using overwatch!

Really useful advice to be found here fellahs. I'll start using it. Thanks.

C.

[thelmia]

I spam the target building with supressing fire (40mm and 105mm is great), then drive the Stryker close to the buidling. I try to block other possible sources of enemy fire with the building itself. I also try to park by a door. Then I have the infantry squad run into the first floor of the building.

This way, at worst I lose one squad and maybe the Stryker.

It's not like the old CM games at all! In those infantry needed to dismount to be your eyes. Now they are fragile targets that need to be preserved in order to take objectives. One thing that remains the same is that most of the actual killing is done by your vehicles.

[Bradley Dick]

I think alot of people playing the game are very used to WWII. It requires different thinking during MOUT with modern day equipment.

When your USGI squad assaulted a house in WWII, he was probably facing bolt action rifles, SMG's, pistols, potato masher grenades. He was less frequently in an urban envrionment. And even then, MOUT was deadly.

Now, infantry's primary role is digging the enemy out of buildings. There are few, if any, open country engagements by infantry. Combat frequently takes place in cities. And when the USGI squad of today assaults a building, he faces fully automatic weapons and rocket propelled grenades. A squad, firing from less than 100m away, even with middle eastern marksmanship standards, SHOULD drop your squad. And you can't cover EVERYWHERE at once with any weapon system. You can just expect troops to die. It sucks. But its pretty realistic.

[KNac]

Yes but compare death ratio in CMSF to real actions in Iraq. Use a similar battle, there are some in the default game allready.

The ratios are higher in CMSF, that's cause the infantry model is far from perfect in the current style...

Even so, I must agree it's not that bad sometimes, the last game I played was the second battle (not campaing, but single battles), which is MOUT based on 2 stryker Pl. against uncons Managed to finish it with only 2 KIA but a lof of WIA (like 19 or so).

[M1A1TC]

Originally posted by SlowMotion:

A gamey trick these wall problems make possible (this is from v1.02):

Often when your infantry jumps out of vehicles near the enemy you get many casualties before they manage to run into the nearest building.

When a Stryker was moving between buildings I noticed sometimes parts of it were inside the building. So I decided to try if there's a way to dismount without casualties. Reversed the Stryker inside the building and then told the infantry to jump out

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z213/r31070021/CMSF/stryker_dismount.gif

Just follow this tactic

[Chelco]

Originally posted by M1A1TankCommander:

Just follow this tactic [/QB]

Oh, this is great.

I recall a guy writing in these forums about smashing walls with the rear end of a stryker and then dismounting the troops inside the building. In real life.

My only concern is: any time one of my vehicles hits a wall, it is very difficult to manage them afterwards.

[Pandur]

try out the new smoke.

no more problems to get anywhere

today i got assaulted by 4 AI strykers with the super cheesy method.

in the hills map, where the "meeting at high altitude" map playes. i waited for i dont know how long...suddenly a stryker jumps over the crest in full speed and rushed to the objective wall. he eats 2 HE´s(as usual, the most useless round fired for the job :confused: ) and pops smoke...

well that did it, after the smoke was gone there where 4 strykers instad of 1. no sound contact, nothing

it even looked like a bug, a stryker droved 10m infront from my BMP1 and a recon squad. you just saw the dust but it wasnt hearable from 10 meters away :confused:

and at that point the smoke was realtively gone too... .

i go and play house cleaning again now with this smoke.

test its capabilitys

[Bradley Dick]

As far as comparing this situation to one in Iraq, that's impossible. They are wildly different. This hypothetical Syrian conflict is a much more dedicated, stand-up fight. The Iraqi's have never really gave us such a tooth and nail resistance. And anyone that wasn't in the push in 2003 with 3rd ID has never seen anything close to numerical similarities. We've always enjoyed a MASSIVE advantage. Even in the big conflicts since 2003, Fallujah etc., the enemy is not fighting us on the level seen in CM:SF. They fire a few rounds, put up a small scale fight and then fade away. They are not interested in holding ground. They will fight when cornered, as rats will even do, but that is only when cornered. If you actually pulled a batallion of APC's up to a complex, they would abandon it.

The AI controlled Syrians however, are dedicated to holding ground. They have no lives to lose and will gladly take a burst of .50 in the chest if it means they can spray a squad of exposed infantry.

[KNac]

Ok then we could compare it with the borderline operations by IDF in Lebanon. Are the ratios similar?

[Karelian]

On the actual topic: I prefer to dismount my infantry well before the actual target building if there´s enough cover to that. I then use all avainable firepower for support and overwatch duties and try to aproach the actual target area from a direction that offers maximum protection for dismounted infantry, while at the same time trying to spot targets for my vehicles and fire support to suppress and kill. Once I assume that the foe is adequately pinned down I pop up smoke to cover the infantry even further, and then seek to quickly assault inside the building to finish the foe off.

And as for the supposedly too high casualty rates and the latest remark that made comparison to Lebanon: Hezbollah was reportedly an extremely elusive opponent as well, and their forces usually conducted only short ambushes and scirmishes with IDF units and then sought to broke off.