Rommel McDonald Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Has anyone tried playing either CMBO or CMBB in Mac OS X "Classic Mode"? If so, how is the performance? I'm in the market for a new Mac, but I might have to consider buying old stock just so I can boot in OS 9. Thanks, jd 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the new Macs sold in the next couple of months will also boot on 9. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rommel McDonald Posted January 30, 2003 Author Share Posted January 30, 2003 All Macs built from hear on out will only boot in OS X and run OS 9 programs in "Classic Mode", ie, over OS X. There are some exceptions for units built through June but those are limited to special orders for educators and custom built towers. All consumer models built in 2003, imacs, powerbooks, etc. will only boot in OS X. It's a pain, but Apple marches on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Hi, If you do a search you will see that this topic was thrashed to death just after the CMBB demo was released (refer:CMBB in OS X). In summary though: No, you can't run CMBB in OS X Classic. Yes, you can run CMBB by booting into OS 9 (not Classic). Also you no longer need to delete the Classic Rave extension. As for not booting into OS 9, the position seems far from clear. My 1 GHz 15" PowerBook does boot into OS 9, the new 1.25 GHz model (released just over two days ago) still boots into OS 9, but the old 1.0 GHz and the new 1.42 GHz don't. Also just because the machine can boot into OS 9 doesn't mean everything is fine. There seems to be issues with CMBB and almost every current video card used by Apple. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Originally posted by gibsonm: As for not booting into OS 9, the position seems far from clear. My 1 GHz 15" PowerBook does boot into OS 9, the new 1.25 GHz model (released just over two days ago) still boots into OS 9, but the old 1.0 GHz and the new 1.42 GHz don't.Hmm... I just booted the previous Dual 1Ghz into 9 a few days ago. Also, the new 1.25 shouldnt boot in 9 as far as I know. Apple even sells a different 1.25GhzDual as being OS9 compatible. One thing about 9 booting is that if the mac uses OSX software raid, it cant boot in OS9 from that driveset, as OS9 doesnt support the raid system used. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Originally posted by Jarmo: One thing about 9 booting is that if the mac uses OSX software raid, it cant boot in OS9 from that driveset, as OS9 doesnt support the raid system used. But that's a user decision. The machine will boot into OS 9 "out of the box". If user wants to use the OS X array then they should be aware that they are forgoing the OS 9 boot feature (or maybe they should buy an additional drive - not in the RAID array to boot from). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoopenfaust2 Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Apple pushed the Mac OS X only date to July 2003. What I'd like to know is: How would they stop us using OS 9. Don't the operating systems run on the same sort of HFS disk system. I still mainly use OS 9 because flash and freehand 10 are buggy and unfinished (they seem more like Beta programs than anything) But Safari is awesome. My Wacom tablet works perfectly now, Jaguar is great. I don't know... I only work here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Originally posted by Hoopenfaust 101: Apple pushed the Mac OS X only date to July 2003. What I'd like to know is: How would they stop us using OS 9. Don't the operating systems run on the same sort of HFS disk system. I still mainly use OS 9 because flash and freehand 10 are buggy and unfinished (they seem more like Beta programs than anything) But Safari is awesome. My Wacom tablet works perfectly now, Jaguar is great. I don't know... I only work here. I thought the latest "new" CPU chips would not work with old OS9 code. it is that simple?, I thought they wanted to pair down the chip hardware in the CPU so it only needs to know and deal with and compute OSX, this is supposed to make the chip more efficient and OSX faster. does that sound right? :confused: -tom w [ January 31, 2003, 01:38 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 I dont exactly know the why's and how's, but no mac has ever been able to boot with an older system than it originally came with. No G4 can boot in os 8, for example. Actually OSX is the first real* exception to the old rule. Macs could still use OS9 for a while, even with X already here. Which is/was nice. *There have been cases, where for example Mac LC was originally released with System 6.x, when System7 arrived it was stuffed in LC's, but you could still use 6.something if you had it. Which was also nice, as 6 used a few hundred kilos less ram, leaving me a whopping 3 megs to play games with. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmead Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 As I understand it this is the situation: All currently shipping iMacs are OS9 bootable. All currently shipping iBooks are OS9 bootable. 15" Titanium G4 Powerbooks should be OS9 bootable. All in stock G4 MDD towers built before January 28 are OS9 bootable. There are G4 MDD towers being built to education order only, that are to the pre January 28 board/feature specification that will boot into OS9 All Aluminum G4 Powerbooks are OSX bootable only. This would be the 12" and 17". A new aluminum G4 15" Powerbook will be replacing the current 15" Titanium will also be OSX only bootable. The new MDD G4 towers with Bluetooth Airport Extreme and 800M Firewire are OSX only bootable. The next product due for a revision will be the iMacs in early February and as well as a number of feature boosts, they will be OSX only bootable. The iBooks probably have a few more months. The way that Apple makes OSX only booting possible is in the rom image that is written to the hd with the original software install and a new strain of OSX. The processors are unchanged, but many features have been added that have no drivers in the earlier OSX and earlier rom image. I am sure a very smart programmer could make a new machine boot into 9, but ultimately to what end? There are lots of hot macs around that can boot into 9 that you can still buy that have similar speed and features as the new ones so I suspect that hack will go unsolved. There will be a new version of OSX in the next month or so, 10.2.4, that will fix a number of issues, and no it will not prevent a currently OS9 bootable Mac from continuing to do so. So if you value OS 9 booting, run down to your favorite local VAR and pick up the hottest discontinued mac you can afford or wait a couple of months and pick up one off of Ebay. CompUSA will likely have a few on hand for a while. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 thanks Karl that is a GREAT synopsis of the situation -tom w 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 Originally posted by kmead: 15" Titanium G4 Powerbooks should be OS9 bootable.I have a 1Ghz / 1Gb 15" Ti PB and it does boot in OS 9 but the graphics card isn't good for CMBB. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmead Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 Yes unfortunately the ATI 9000 chip set drivers are not up to the job of running CM. Apple is also having some troubles with this chipset with Keynote and is expected to make some changes to Apple code to fix that problem. Whether or not it fixes anything for CM is a bad crap shoot. Now if you would send your G4 Powerbook to Charles for a few weeks, maybe he could figure out how to massage the code for the chipset for everyone.... Just a thought 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Von Richthoffe Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 Then it looks if I'm screwed. I'd love to buy a new G4 1,42 but it won't boot in os 9. So what does this mean? Do I have to keep my iMac DV just to play CMBO and CMBB? Or cant they just make a patch so it can be played in X? :confused: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rommel McDonald Posted February 1, 2003 Author Share Posted February 1, 2003 That's my same dilemma. I think we're screwed and we just have to wait for the next generation of CM to be written. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karch Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 Messages coming from Matt and Charles make it sound like it's impossible to make a patch for CM. The entire graphics engine would have to be rewritten in openGL and that isn't worth the time it would take compared to getting a new engine written for CMIII. I'm seriously considering finding an old Pentium II to use for CM and all the kids software that's not available for Mac, but using a mac for my personal work, photos, imovie stuff and things like that. I'm very upset at the inability to play CM on new Macs, but I'm sure BFC is as well and would change things if they could, but they probably can't without losing tons of money. I trust them and their judgement. If they say it can't be done in a timely manner that wouldn't lose them money and wouldn't impact the next engine rewrite, I'm sure they would do it. S 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 Originally posted by karch: Messages coming from Matt and Charles make it sound like it's impossible to make a patch for CM. The entire graphics engine would have to be rewritten in openGL and that isn't worth the time it would take compared to getting a new engine written for CMIII. I'm seriously considering finding an old Pentium II to use for CM and all the kids software that's not available for Mac, but using a mac for my personal work, photos, imovie stuff and things like that. I'm very upset at the inability to play CM on new Macs, but I'm sure BFC is as well and would change things if they could, but they probably can't without losing tons of money. I trust them and their judgement. If they say it can't be done in a timely manner that wouldn't lose them money and wouldn't impact the next engine rewrite, I'm sure they would do it. S I agree it is a SAD state of affairs. I will miss playing CMBB but I think I will have to leave it behind when the give/lend me my next new Mac laptop that won't boot into OS9 that is coming this summer and it will be OSX only. This OSX only issue really bites! -tom w 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Von Richthoffe Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 I really can't understand Apple in a sertain way. Don't they GET IT? There not really doing any good by making their machines OS X only. there are lots and lots of people that don't even wan't to change to X because they believe that changing to a Unix like OS takes away alot of simplicity and because some companies won't even write software yet for X. By pushing people to X they just might be doing the opposite and pushing people away from the Macintosh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karch Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 I don't want to be seen as coming down hard on either BFC or Apple. I don't really blame either of them too much. Well, BFC, not at all. They've followed every rule, developed in RAVE because Apple told them that's what would be supported for years to come. Then they decided not to FULLY support it in classic X. Too bad, so close, but ther is nearly ZERO chance of them updating RAVE any longer. they don't have the $$ to throw away. As for moving forward with X only. It does make sense to me. They have MUCH more limited resources in OS and Hardware research and development. On top of that, they are making software developers get on the X bandwagon for any serious computing. I think they have to to make X competitive software wise. Developers only have limited resources to throw at application development. 9 and X are 2 platforms that need to be developed for. Yes Carbon apps run in both, but there is probably a lot of duplicated development and testing for both. And with the Mac market share as small as it is, supporting 2 OSs on the Mac just doesn't make $$$ sense. I think they are doing the best they can with the resources they have (and with Motorola screwing up so badly). Heck, I wish Apple won the computer war, but they didn't. I'm just happy they are still sticking around and that BFC is creating software that runs (or Ran )on the Mac, and I'm pretty sure they will continue to support Macs on OSX when CM3 comes out. hey there's always next year and the never ending dream of the processor that will finally smoke all Intel boxes.... we Mac users can dream can't we? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 Well I hate to say it but maybe buying Virtual PC would let you have the best of both worlds? I must admit I replaced a 7220 at home with a G4 just so I could play CMBB and it looks like I'll keep my old 500Mhz G4 PB, given that the new 1Ghz does run it but I need sunglasses. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmead Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 An update on my info from above from the Mac OS Rumors site: *The next update on deck appears to be the iMac and eMac lines, but there is much continued doubt as to when Apple will be able to clear out existing supplies of both models. The predicted specs continue to center around 1GHz processors for the high-end iMac (900MHz is probable for the eMac), Firewire 800, 4X Superdrives, Airport Extreme and Bluetooth support, and a move to 17-inch displays for most iMac models. Timing, as described above, is not very clear -- but presently we are looking at the 6-8 week timeframe. *An OS X 10.2.4 Update (codename "Jaguar Pink") is now in mid-testing, and will be released near the end of the month. It will be primarily a collection of bug fixes and hardware support updates for the new Powerbooks and PowerMacs, but will also apparently include new drivers for both ATi and nVIDIA graphics cards, system audio layer functionality improvements, and new optimizations to OS X's CoreGraphics engine. One can only hope that there is some effect on CMBB useability with the new drivers for Nvidia and ATI. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 Originally posted by gibsonm: Well I hate to say it but maybe buying Virtual PC would let you have the best of both worlds? Hmm.. I'll give it a shot. :cool: I do doubt it'll work though, my work G4/867 struggles to match the speed of PII/266 that's collecting dust in the corner, while CMBB stated minimum requirements call for 800Mhz... Add the fact that VPC emulates S3 graphics (basically no graphics to speak of) and the prospects are not good. Anyway, if the download works, we'll know more in a few hours... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don't Panic Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 I have successfully run CMBO on virtual PC 4 at 800x600 on my TiPB 1Gz but it is still really sloooowwww ! when compare to running natively on my PB G3 400. So use it only if you can put up with the slow speed and if you can't get your CM fix any other way. Cheers 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 My test hasn't been too revealing yet. First the download of demo took too long, so I left the testing for the next day. Then the install didnt work. Will try again later, but seems it's unnecessary with the result above. Heard VPC 6 has a better graphics card support, too bad I wont be getting it anytime soon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 Couldnt get the CMBB to run at all under VPC. A conflict of some sort, maybe I just didnt have enough DirectX. Didnt have time to fix it and dont know if I'll bother later. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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