Pandur Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 straight put. i started 2 times a fresh battle, put all my units into dead ground. they where never able to see anyone. yet both times the enemy dircted his fire directly into my force. i was still in setup zone so to say, i didnt moved...laying flat and not moving. took the AI 1 minute to start fireing. the absence of a FO is a pain. ploting an arty strike is easy as klick and point, and the opfor AI sees you all the time and isnt pretty good in hiding it. greetings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdp Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 Yeah, sure gets ridiculous sometimes. The same problem occurs when you try to hide your troops and the AI is scripted to draw a rectangle around the largest concentration of enemy forces and attack that. So much for using terrain to move undetected... I think we will see less of this in user made missions to come hopefully. regards/ sdp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandur Posted June 1, 2007 Author Share Posted June 1, 2007 :eek: thats how it works... i just wanted to look into the video tutorials and put a mission together wich does not use such stuff and needs you to keep you forces maybe a reinforcement when you reach a certain point but well lets see. have to check the editor first... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapHappy Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 Actually pretty easy to script. I was going to work on one of these ideas after dinner tonight. You trigger your air/arty strike from a conditional statement where an individual soldier must have spotting on the enemy. Primarily uses the UnitsIsVisible and CreateRectByObject statements. Of course, sounds easy to me on the surface, we shall see......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetchez la Vache Posted June 2, 2007 Share Posted June 2, 2007 Uber arty = pre mission recon? I personally don't find the AI artillery missions too ridiculous. Annoying yes, because it's a sod seeing your troops being shelled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandur Posted June 2, 2007 Author Share Posted June 2, 2007 pre mission recon!? funy explanation for AI x-ray view. even the CM AI needed to use its spotters, and that game is qiet old compared to this one. @SlapHappy i think problem cold be that, when your unit sees the or any unit(depends on how oyu do it), you can still plot the strike to any place you cant see as soo as you have it available... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapHappy Posted June 2, 2007 Share Posted June 2, 2007 Good point. However, there may be a way around that. I'll check it out. Have started on the basic setup of the example mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetchez la Vache Posted June 2, 2007 Share Posted June 2, 2007 Just trying to ease the pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reichenberg Posted June 2, 2007 Share Posted June 2, 2007 Pandur, is it possible that the AI has a "spotter" (high scouting skills) somewhere around?? Maybe you can check that in the mission editior. The high scouting skills would make him good at camouflaging himself (hard to spot) and good at spotting you. He could be the one responsible for you being spotted and attacked by off-map arty. This is not very likely - but you never know. Maybe it is actually part of the mission design to make you start to move fast ASAP. It would definitely not be what I would consider a mission I would like - but that is another thing. Uwe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfritch Posted June 2, 2007 Share Posted June 2, 2007 IL2 engine = They always know where you are (like in IL2, clouds mean nothing to the tie fighter AI) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnN Posted June 2, 2007 Share Posted June 2, 2007 Not true (in ToW), if you haven't been spotted by any units the enemy won't react to you at all. Once one has they'll all know about you (just like the player does). sdp has is right, in the mission scripting it's possible to draw a rectangle around your troops and then get units to do something to it (storm it, shell it, etc). You don't have to do this, but the mission designers for these ones chose to do it that way. Rubbish, but it isn't an intrinsic part of the engine. Have fun Finn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfritch Posted June 2, 2007 Share Posted June 2, 2007 I stand corrected! Still b.s. though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapHappy Posted June 2, 2007 Share Posted June 2, 2007 FinnN is 100% correct. All this is completely dependent upon the way the mission is coded. It is possible to code realistic and unrealistic things in the game. The choice is up to the scenario designer. Believe me, the future of TOW is all about the scripting language and the battle/map editor. With clever scripting, the possibilities are pretty much endless. Given that there is a RND() or random function in the game, it would be even possible to create scripts which create random battles, although this would entail a lot of code and balance editing. Still possible, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandur Posted June 2, 2007 Author Share Posted June 2, 2007 Not true (in ToW), if you haven't been spotted by any units the enemy won't react to you at all. no!? arty fire is reaction enough for me... i currently play the one "monstro" mission by webwing. plays verry nice. no offmap support for anyone so far, no xray attacks. feels more like CM than the stock missions. big action armor clashes shouldnt be the all day labor in that game for me. this mission is verry infantry based. no more possible spoilers. inthe end, i really hope that ppl try to avoid such stuff in self made missions. keep is simple id say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnN Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 Well, kind-of. What I mean by it isn't 'reacting' to you - the mission designer has programmed it explicitly to target your troops (ignoring spotting) and shell you. The AI won't do this independently. On the other hand a squad of infantry that hasn't spotted you in some cover won't suddenly turn around and shoot at you - whereas if some other unit spots you, they become aware and will turn around and take a pop. Have fun Finn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandur Posted June 3, 2007 Author Share Posted June 3, 2007 i also mean something like a "GETpos" command. where you can get positions of units(or the player in other games) and direct any counter against it...up to mission designer(dont know if TOW/IL2 engine has such or similar command, but i think). that and the super arty is what "I"(meybe not everyone here )mean when i say Xray vison or something like that. i never said that the enemy units see more or less than mine do or are prefered otherwhise. i just dont like the heavy scripting of the stock missions. it feels MUCH to fluid. iam constantly in fear that a super IS2/king tiger whatnot taskforce spawns 400m to my right in plain sight just becouse i elimintated some amount of enemies. its terrible. also, nomaly it should be good when you preserve your forces. in stock missions reinforcesments often wont show up until you lost so and so many own forces. thats not verry motivating i mean i can unerstand from the point of view that you wont get reinforcements when you dont need them. but, uh...none of this both aproaches are perfect i think. mostly iam a fan of reinforcements when you reach a certain spot or phase line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapHappy Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 "mostly iam a fan of reinforcements when you reach a certain spot or phase line." That can be done as well within the scripting capabilities. You can even determine the number of troops required to reach the location before the reinforcements are triggered. Or even create a probability function on whether the reinforcements show up or not. Or when they show up. You can even randomize WHAT TYPE of reinforcements show up. Or combinations of all of the above. Pretty much unlimited possibilities, as I said before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandur Posted June 4, 2007 Author Share Posted June 4, 2007 awsome... unfortunately my scripting skills and understanding is verry limited i did some mission for flshpoint for myself to play on hamachi with friends wich required "some" scripting but thats it :/ flashpoint also used triggers an and so i understand the concept of it. i find the editor rather compftable acually, the placeholder stuff is a bit strange but ok my biggest problem still the grammar(gramatic!?) so to say. its mostly no hard to get a scripting reference as pdf wich gives you all commands and such, but how to express it for the computed to understand and how to...well you know what i mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapHappy Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 I agree the placeholders for the player side seem sort of redundant. I'm not sure what purpose the other player icons serve on the map unless it's just to reference the placeholders later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jippo Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Originally posted by Pandur: pre mission recon!? funy explanation for AI x-ray view. even the CM AI needed to use its spotters, and that game is qiet old compared to this one. Hmmmm.... I find it a good explanetion! I mean, recon is there just to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandur Posted June 5, 2007 Author Share Posted June 5, 2007 hehe indeed, but in this case(for "AI" Xray vision)there isnt even a Xray visionary needed. normaly i kill these and its done with Xray attacks, but here they must have cloak of invisiblility +3 or so :/ I agree the placeholders for the player side seem sort of redundant. I'm not sure what purpose the other player icons serve on the map unless it's just to reference the placeholders later. only point i can see with place holders that oyu can group the units together in a corner and sort em so you have total understanding of how mcuh and wha is in the mission. jsut for the ease of selecting them instead of looking for schütze franz in some trench somewhere on the map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapHappy Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 One way to avoid the ability to have free reign over the map with your own artillery strikes might work if you do it this way: Create a spotter unit composed of say two guys. Create a third army which is an ally of yours. Give that third army the support units, but no ground troops. When your spotter group sees an enemy formation, call the allies support and create target RECT based around spotted units. You will never get the targeting icon that you normally get because the units don't belong to you and get treated as if they are AI controlled. Should work in theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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