Mukavamedia Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 I bought the game and I like it. It has a big potential to become the best strategy and combat simulation game.....but before that... I think it needs "Closecombat " style of "Grand Campaigns". Like in CCV the grand campaign was really interesting with a big strategy map. It should have that kind of big area/map where all the "big" decisions are made and then the actual battles would be fought in the missions. Are there any plans to develop that kind of campaigns? [ March 03, 2008, 04:21 AM: Message edited by: Mukavamedia ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
himmelstoss Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 2nd that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sfox28 Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 3rd that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
666 Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 4th that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
666 Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 Grand map campaign like CC4 or CC5 would be awesome, but back to reality - I'd be satisfied with CC3 style, i.e. about 10 "operations" each consisting of 3-4 battles in the same area and within a week; of course with ability of losing single battle not causing losing of whole campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnasher Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 Guys, the good news is that this is entirely doable! The bad news is someone from the community is gonna have to do it! Google maps to get the raw maintex & farmaintex images of the battle, then a little playing inside a graphics editor to smaarten up / regress back to 1940's terrain, some time in map editor & then a shed loada time in mission builder, et voila, exactly what you wanted. Not easy or quick chaps, but entirely doable with a little diligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnasher Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 Oh I forgot to mention that clickable zone aint doable...... However a well crafted campaignb over thesame ground on muiltiple missions is ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG TOW Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 This is gonna take a whole other layer of AI. A Strategic AI moving Kampf gruppen around a chess board. Then resolving the battle zoomed in the 3D battlefield. I think this should be developed. Was not CM about to go this route? In the mean time Gnashers linked battlefield might be the quick ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mukavamedia Posted March 4, 2008 Author Share Posted March 4, 2008 Thank You all for so many responses already. How about and idea of starting with what we got already. We could take CCV mod, for example "Stalingrad der Kessel" (With lots of wintermaps) We could then start CCV Multiplayer Grand Campaign. Both players make their moves like normallly in a CCV game. After the moves, there will be some battles. Now instead of going to CCV battles, we could close CCV for a while and start TOW and fight the battles in TOW. (There are lots of wintermaps in TOW that can be used as such) After battles the CCV map frontline could be updated accordingly. If the attacker wins he gets that particurlar map area, if he looses the frontline stays the same. I think that could be quick and dirty starting point of Grand Campaign in TOW -development. In fact all of the above can be done already now manually. After TOW results it is very easy to make the same result in CCV maps. (The loosing side just takes for example one sniper and places that in front of the enemy tanks.. After going trough all the battles that way, the CCV Grand Campaign map is updated according to figths in TOW!!!! And then players could do their next moves. Instead of doing all that manually, some coding might be useful to get TOW fights generated taken in to account previous losses in that unit etc... [ March 04, 2008, 01:25 AM: Message edited by: Mukavamedia ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reichenberg Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 As much as I am with you folks..... I hope before having a grand campaign in ToW 1) the Tac-AI is improved to reduce micro management of individual soldiers (weapon scrounging, behaviour under fire...) - or at least have it optional for the people who like it. 2) the Tac-AI is improved to get rid of the too predominant scripting in mission design. 3) buildings will be enterable for infantry. With all that in ToW included, I am all for the grand campaign, preferably with a strategic layer of gameplay included ala CC. Uwe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sfox28 Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 All of what has been said here is great stuff! I'm just a bit too old and not wise enough to get through the TOW Map and Campaign Editors. I can only go so far...LOL! But, I have been a great play-tester and would help as much as possible especially with the historical aspects of the Campaign (or Operations). There's that word again "HISTORICAL". Now I'm really laughing out loud. But seriously, getting the TOW community to get with the program, much like the CC crowd, would be excellent for the future of this great game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bus Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 I think that it needs a campaign style like CC3. The experience from solders comes to more use in the game, and the player gets the units he wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
666 Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 The thing I like in CC and I miss in ToW is rewarding player for wisely using his units, saving lives of his soldiers. In ToW, in every mission you have XY points for building your army from scratch regardless of result of just fought battle. In CC3 you have your ruined army from previous fight and some points to replace casaulties or buy little of new units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikel S Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 I think it is a great idea. ToW is not CC5 or the family of CC games. Perosnally I would prefer to see on board ID (indirect fire) come on, and sort out the air and arty support for the multiplay side. But by far the idea of a grand campagin is great. I do foresee a small but many loyal units for ladder competetiions soon to come. Chef Schwendau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pad152 Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 I like the idea of a CC like campaign! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mukavamedia Posted March 6, 2008 Author Share Posted March 6, 2008 Thanks again, I am very glad to see so many positive feedback on this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedinbob Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullet Magnet Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 When i bought Tow i already thought it was going to be like CC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel B. Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I really think that this game would be more fitted to a Rome total war campaign... Cheers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nachinus Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 You mean with resources and 'buildings' that 'build' units? That's not a wargame. I wouldn't like it at all, I'm afraid. I find it difficult to find a way to create a consistent campaign system in a serious and realistic wargame so that the campaign strategical game is so deep and realistic as the tactical part. In most cases, the strategical part is dull. Although I praise the effort to make a system to integrate the battles in the wider scope of a big operation, I didn't like the CC4&5 checkers-like silly boardgame. My personal opinion is that CC2 had the best campaign ever made for a tactical game: everything represented historicaly, with good documentation for the operation, and all the battles had its impact in the progress and outcome of the campaign. Bloody brilliant it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoppelhopser Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 My personal opinion is that CC2 had the best campaign ever made for a tactical game: everything represented historicaly, with good documentation for the operation, and all the battles had its impact in the progress and outcome of the campaign. Bloody brilliant it was. I liked the graphics and engine improvements which were best in CC5, but you are right: CC2 campaign from end of 1997 was second to none. Nothing's even got close. Like Red Baron 2's (WW1 sim 1998)legendary pilot campaign, which to this day also was never bested. Today we get shaders, bump maps and thousands of polygons, yet the best campaigns are from the nineties ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Han Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Gotta second that CC2 had the best/most immersive campaign of the Close Combat series. Battles and operations that had impact on the outcome of the campaign. Seeing what ToW is right now, I think a CC5 or CC2-like campaign would be hard to create, and wouldn't do justice to all the equipment that is around either which would be a shame. I'd settle for a CC3-like campaign. Although CC3 was often called a "club-med tour of the eastern front", I'd say that such a campaign would suit ToW very well. Besides, it wouldn't be all that difficult to realize. One would need some extra options during battles like cease-fire and retreat options. If it would be possible to easily create multi-day operations like CC3 had, the replayability of ToW would benefit greatly from that. I suppose creating a CC3-like campaign is already possible given enough knowledge of scripting. However the complexity of the scripting is such that it seriously limits the number of people capable of creating new campaigns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel B. Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 I still feel the RTW campaign stile is the best. In ancient eras it works near perfection espetially with some very, very good mods there are (europa barbarorum for instance). It gives you a scope of commanding your armies from affar and the logistical problems for instance - this is more in the mod mind you - when you send a major conquering army against other civ and you made the mistake of advancing too far then, tough you win locally, the AI wins due to the fact that your forces get wasted and you have no chance of recovering yours. So, when you make an offensive war it'll take a lot of your resources both in money as manpower (you can actually loose a war because you simply don't have the manpower to ustain the war). And it gives you a lot of liberty to build your armies and conduct your own war. As for building churning out units, again, the EB mod has made it somewhat realistic for old ages. Of course it has to be different for a WWII game. The resource sistem more like Hearts of Iron or something but still, I said like not just as. I want something that gives you the same strategic insight (CC2 is very good indeed. But just locally. I feel you never get the full scope of it as you don't build your forces.). Anyway, just my long 2cts. Cheers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnasher Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 RTW is a strategic game, ToW is tactical based on small unit (Platoon to company(Hard to do)) actions. I dont see how the two compare. This game aint about logistics, it's about getting up close & personal & killing your foe through superior manouvring. Oh if only hand-to-hand combat were modeled.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thork Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 I definitely could imagine a complex strategic game like HoI2 mix up with a tactical simulation like ToW... I imagine that you could just pick a fight on the strategic map and you'd get a small scale battle representation taking into account some data like unit mixture/ratio... Or pick a unit you'd like to command throughout the whole compaign... Anyway, tactical battle results could barely affect the strategic battle results if you got >divisional size strat. battles... But for now lets stay with a CC like campaign Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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