gunnersman Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 I noticed in the AAR at Sim HQ that the trenches were in clear view the whole time and were not hidden until spotted by friendly units. Is this the way it is suppose to be? Is this realistic? Or does this simulate a some form of basic reconnaissance? Im used to playing CMBO/CMBB/CMAK and not seeing trenches from the start of the game(unless of course part of a trench or trench system was spotted after setup). It would take some of the fun (frustration?) out if I knew exactly where the enemy would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megakill Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 You can see trenches, but you will not see if there are any units there unless you get close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComradeP Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 The trenches were also in pretty obvious terrain and judging by Luftwaffe activity, they could've been spotted even if the "Reveal trenches"-like system would not be always "on" so to speak. I don't think it matters all that much whether you can see trenches. Sure, you can plan your assault, but you have no clue where the largest concentration of enemy troops is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkel Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 It would be cool if you could drag your own trenches in deployment mode, this way you can decide what area you think is best to defend from, not where the mapmaker thinks you should set up your forces Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarquelne Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Originally posted by Megakill: You can see trenches, but you will not see if there are any units there unless you get close. Trenches are a part of the map like a house or a tree, yes? They'll always be there at the start of a scenario? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnersman Posted August 9, 2006 Author Share Posted August 9, 2006 Are foxholes handled the same way since they are part of the map design or will they be hidden? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 From what I have seen, all fortification are part of the map design, and therefore are visible on game start (and usually pointed out in briefings as being either part of the main objective of the attacking player, or at least close to it). In other words, in the missions that I have seen at least, battlefield recon is done properly before the mission starts. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 eck...doublepost [ August 09, 2006, 11:24 AM: Message edited by: M Hofbauer ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 ah, so this is what all the Aufklärer-Fernaufklärer-reconnaisance-recon_detachments-Aufklärungsabteilungen-Panzerspähwagen-Späher-scouts-uswusf were for... and here I was thinking that like in RedAlert the forces in WW II didnt have any maps and terrain knowledge and simply stumble forward into the dark edges of the map to be surprised by whatever they find there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuirassier Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Doesn't the fact that entrenchments are placed by the scenario designer and can't be modified by the player sort of a handicap for the person playing the defensive end of the battle? I hate to compare this game to CM, since this has been done already, but this concept reminds me of battles in CM where the defensive entrenchments are padlocked. In battles like this, the scenario designer, not the player, determines how the defense will more or less be set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Cuirassier, in CM battles this is sometimes justified if the scenario designer wants a mission to be played (or at least started) in a historical way. While a "what if" scenario might be something interesting to explore for the defender, that's usually not he point of the scenario, and the outcome (in a well designed battle) doesn't depend on it either. It's a similar situation with TOW. While the maps favor a certain starting point, many other factors determine the outcome of the battle due to good map design. There are many options to each map, and since due to my own inability to actuall win a battle I was forced to replay a lot of missions so far I am surprised over and over again at how differently they play out even against the AI. Even the starting forces seem to change. So as a defender, you do not always have to use the trenches and fortified positions. You can choose to keep some guys back in reserve, effectively turning some fortifications into dummy positions to lure out the enemy artillery or air support. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuirassier Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 But won't units that don't locate in the predefined entrenchments be at a disadvantage, since they won't be dug in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaBellum Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 If you can lure your opponent to spend his artillery support on your (empty) trenches while your infantry lies safely in a reverse slope ambush I'd wouldn't call this a disadvantage. But still, the inability to move/create trench systems is IMO another serious issues for the game. For me the main interest lies in multiplayer battles. I will play through the offline campaigns and will probably have fun doing so, but what I'm wondering is if I'll be still playing ToW 6 months after release. The lack of a map/scenario editor and now the fixed fortifications on the maps are not very helpful to provide this longterm playability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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